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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks for pointing to this report Deidre, I think overall it is a very valuable document and a bit of a model for how to move forward in jurisdictionally divided contexts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Deirdre Williams<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 31, 2014 6:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> Internet Governance; Mawaki Chango<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] Vint Verf tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yesterday the Caribbean Telecommunications Union added <a href="http://www.ctu.int/download/Principles%20for%20a%20Singles%20%20ICT%20Space%202.0.pdf" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#00349A'>Principles for a Seamless ICT Space - A preliminary discussion paper V 2.0</span></a> to the<a href="http://www.ctu.int/component/content/article/163" target="_blank"> list of documents</a> for the Caribbean IGF to be held next week in Nassau. The CTU was set up by CARICOM, the Caribbean Community, and clearly defines itself as an intergovernmental organisation. On page 9 of the document you will find this list:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>"6. The Role of Stakeholders<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>The following outlines the roles of each of the major stakeholders in making the Single <o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>ICT Space a reality:<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-family:Symbol'>·</span> Governments<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-family:Symbol'>·</span> Regulators<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-family:Symbol'>·</span> Operators<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-family:Symbol'>·</span> CARICOM Institutions<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-family:Symbol'>·</span> Other Caribbean Organisations" (I have edited it to leave only the bullets)<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>My initial response was - "I" am not there - but I will be there, at the meeting, at the CTU's invitation, as a full participant. So what's going on?<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>I would propose that a great part of the difficulty of definition is caused by the word "stakeholder", because a stakeholder is seen as being one with a tangible, concrete investment in a process. Google and Facebook etc qualify, "we" don't. But the issue isn't that type of investment. The issue is approach or perspective. POV (point of view) would be better than stakeholder. The CTU's list accords perfectly with its perspective as an intergovernmental organisation. Currently the list I quote above is what is ethically possible for that organisation. But at the same time they are opening themselves to consider POVs of other people and groups.<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>What we need to do is start thinking about different approaches, and open negotiations among the points of view to meld them into a whole. "Stakeholder" sounds like a sort of ownership and distorts the argument. Please try to think about it this way and see if it makes sense to you.<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>Deirdre<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 30 July 2014 20:24, Mawaki Chango <<a href="mailto:kichango@gmail.com" target="_blank">kichango@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Correction:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> ...qualifying the need for distinction between stakeholder groups *[erase --> which are regularly raised] when faced with nominating representatives/delegates as a flaw (...) and then *faulting the Geneva-WSIS type of MSism for it... </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Mawaki Chango <<a href="mailto:kichango@gmail.com" target="_blank">kichango@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:20 PM, McTim <<a href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com" target="_blank">dogwallah@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Mawaki Chango <<a href="mailto:kichango@gmail.com" target="_blank">kichango@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> McTim,<br>><br>> You keep making this point that all the woes of MSism come from, and only<br>> from, the ITU/WSIS breed.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I've never made that point. I HAVE however consistently pointed out<br>that what goes on in Geneva is "meta-IG" and that BUTOC (Bottom Up,<br>Transparent, Open, Consensus-based) processes are far superior to<br>those where governments have a greater role than anyone else.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Well, I feel pretty sure having read you more than once qualifying the need for distinction between stakeholder groups which are regularly raised when faced with nominating representatives/delegates as a flaw (eg, CS vs. business reps or CS vs. Technical community reps), and then faulting it onto the Geneva-WSIS type of MSism... like they created it. This is quite a different problem from the question of governments having greater role.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But if you think that is a misreading from my part, then I hope this would also mean that you're hereby recognizing that the difficulties coming with grouping and labeling stakeholders --which inevitably requires distinguishing between them-- do not particularly originate from the Geneva-WSIS type of MSism.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you for the links to useful resources.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mawaki<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" target="_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <br>“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979 <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>