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<DIV>Trying to go back to the original discussion -</DIV>
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<DIV>I hear all the reasons why we can’t avoid discussing equal footing. But the
beginning here was the idea of a consensual statement on multistakeholderism – I
think we should work on that, with as good a reference to equal footing as we
can agree on at this stage, rather than divert to trying to develop a common
position on what equal footing means.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Because I think we can get somewhere on a multistakeholderism statement.
</DIV>
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<DIV>Ian</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=kichango@gmail.com
href="mailto:kichango@gmail.com">Mawaki Chango</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 28, 2014 4:58 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=governance@lists.igcaucus.org
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">Internet Governance</A> ; <A
title=dogwallah@gmail.com href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com">McTim</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance]
Vint Verf tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition
process</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>McTim,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You keep making this point that all the woes of MSism come from, and only
from, the ITU/WSIS breed.</DIV>
<DIV>First of all, I'd contend that the constituency-based approach at ICANN was
and still is an instance of MSism. Don't take my word for it; as soon as the
WSIS process made the term 'multistakeholder' fashionable, we've heard it a lot
reclaimed in ICANN's ranks. So much so that they have now re-devised their old
constituency groupings into stakeholder groupings. However, as far as I know,
ICANN only dealt with its direct stakeholders as organization, that is, the
domain name industry, the technical community (security and stability aspects of
the net), and the business, particularly via the lenses of IPR issues. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yes, I'm aware of the very early failed attempt at direct voting by end
users for their reps on the board of directors, but after that it took many
years for the Noncommercial user constituency to be recognized (only as part of
the GNSO community) and for ICANN itself to get the ALAC structures going.
(Please feel free to correct me or complete if I'm missing any major aspect of
things here; I'm just summarizing on the flight.) At the end of the day,
constituencies and stakeholders at ICANN have also had to be divided into
separate groupings with an identity label -- and so it was before WSIS
started.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Was that then a perfect instance of MSism which ITU-WSIS came to spoil? I
just once to have this clarified once for all as to what you exactly mean
everything you point to ITU as having put the worm in the fruit (or whatever
colloquialism I'm missing to remember correctly here) by delineating stakeholder
groups as it did during the WSIS process. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Beyond that, I'd also appreciate if you can give references or pointers to
any clear formulations (e.g, RFC or excerpt of charter, of rules and operating
procedures of relevant groups, or other informal text that may have served for
guidance in implementing MSism, etc.) of instances of MSism you deem successful
or which should be taken as reference (such as any version of "<SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">MSism that built and
developed the </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">Internet for the last 3+
decades.") My apologies if that has been done before, as I suspect it could
have.</SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">Thanks and
cheers,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">Mawaki</SPAN></DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 4:15 PM, McTim <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com"
target=_blank>dogwallah@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">All,<BR>
<DIV><BR><BR>On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Norbert Bollow <<A
href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch">nb@bollow.ch</A>> wrote:<BR>> On Sun, 27 Jul
2014 07:44:26 -0700<BR>> "michael gurstein" <<A
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR>><BR>>> In other words "equal footing for foxes and hens",
sounds pretty good<BR>>> in theory, in practice not so good (for the
hens... exceptionally<BR>>> good for the foxes...<BR>><BR>> Equal
footing means that the hens must not use their wings to try to<BR>>
escape?<BR>><BR>> SCNR (=Sorry, could not resist.)<BR>><BR>> On a
more serious note, how should the following be classified?<BR>><BR>>
During the drafting process for the Paris WSIS+10 outcome document,
the<BR>> UNESCO guy running the process essentially simply turned deaf ears
to<BR>> the proposal to include a reference to the civil society
WSIS<BR>> declaration alongside the governmental one.<BR><BR><BR></DIV>We
have to keep in mind that the "MS" IG processes which emanate from<BR>Geneva
are not the same sort of MSism that built and developed the<BR>Internet for
the last 3+ decades. Those are the models we should be<BR>using, NOT the
ones that come from Geneva.<BR><SPAN><FONT
color=#888888><BR><BR><BR><BR>--<BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>McTim<BR>"A name indicates
what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A<BR>route indicates how we
get there." Jon
Postel<BR><BR></FONT></SPAN><BR>____________________________________________________________<BR>You
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