<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Maybe in Wonderland this 'equal footing decision making" sounds good, but in constitutional rights theory, lawmaking reasoning or management white collar thinking, it looks ugly. In mouth as well.<div><br></div><div>I would love to see how this 'equal footing' thinking would work in a corporation. Send me the picture of the shareholders, or the CEO, during the equal-footing board meeting.<br><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>
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<br><div><div>Le 27 juil. 2014 à 16:44, michael gurstein a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>In other words "equal footing for foxes and hens", sounds pretty good in theory, in practice not so good (for the hens... exceptionally good for the foxes...<br><br>M<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of parminder<br>Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 6:48 AM<br>To: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>Subject: Re: CS consensual statement on MSism WAS Re: [governance] Vint Verf tells us the conclusion of the complex IANA transition process<br><br><br>Indeed the term 'equal footing' merits some attention and analysis, as the NetMundial outcome document exhorts us to do.<br><br>The problem of course is not with the term 'equal footing' itself, but we need to look closely at 'equal footing for whom' - something which this email will try to do<br><br>Democracy's basic idea is of equality of all people, or, in other worlds, all people on equal footing. There is simply no democracy without that.<br><br>Are we calling for equal footing for all people here? Or, since people live and see themselves socially as belonging in various social groups, an equal footing of social groups of people? ( geographic groups like neighbourhoods, villages, towns and nations, or identity based ones - which may or may not overlap with geo-based - like gender, ethnicity, class, etc).<br><br>No, MS-ism does not call for equal footing for people or for social groups of people? It calls for equal footing for stakeholders?<br><br>There would be no problem if stakeholders were just like natural social groups of natural people. But that is not the fact. And to the extent that stakeholders, as seen by MSism we find in practice, are *not* just natural groups of natural people, the equal footing of stakeholders rather than being equal footing of people and their natural groups, militates against it. It is in this way that equal-footing MSism subverts democracy, that ideology and practice of equal footing of all people...<br><br>Where does the term stakeholder deviate from people or their natural groups? It is easy to see - when the (big) capital owner and the<br>(privileged) expert is brought it as special political invitees, or in fact political overlords. Both the epithets, 'big' and 'privileged', fully apply and are basic to this analysis.<br><br>Mark it, the (big) capital owner - hereon, simply business, , and the<br>(privileged) expert - hereon, simply the tech community - come in a second role, for a second political dip, apart from in any case being people (the few that they are) in normal people's political configurations, either as civil society or as represented by democratic governments. In this second role, they claim special characteristics whereby they should be given extra political power - respectively, owning productive resources, and possessing special knowledge (another productive resource in fact). In various MS meetings, these two groups openly quote these special characteristics for claiming extra, second dip, political power, through an extra seat at the policy table.<br><br>Now not only is the 'big business' and 'the special expert' coming in for the second time to partake political power whereby some people will have twice the political role and power as others, it is much much more pernicious. The extremely few - in fact minuscule - number of big business and special expert claim the same amount of political space in MSism as the whole of civil society and the whole of (however imperfect) government-as-people's-representative group. The proportion on two sides reminds one of the 1 percent and 99 percent equation of the occupy movement. Well, MSism is your reverse occupy movement, where the big business is trying to occupy the democracy space, but lets not digress....<br><br>One cannot separate nice theoretical sentences about MSism from its actual practice - which, as we have seen till now, is strictly based on four way equal division of political space among very unequal actors - business, tech community, gov and civil society.<br><br>It is evident that in the name of equal footing of stakeholders, what is being done is that the equal footing among people, and their natural groups, is being completely upstaged. That is how and where MSism upstages democracy, and all real conceptions of equality....<br><br>You want equality of 'real stakeholders', call the next NetMundial and the next IGF MAG with say, and I am trying to be very conservative here,<br>10 stakeholder groups, *on an equal footing*. Give one place each to global reps of women's groups, ethnic minorities, disabled community, trade unions, slum residents associations, farmers groups ..... we can make 8 stakeholder categories like this. We will then leave one for business associations - to be filled in equally by big business reps and reps of small businesses. We can have, if you will, another single category of experts with half of them technical experts and half relevant social experts.<br><br>This will be much closer to equal footing of stakeholders as promoting rather than upstaging the democratic ideal of equal footing of all people and their natural groups. Any takes for this model of MSism..<br><br><br>parminder<br><br><br><br>On Sunday 27 July 2014 06:02 PM, Avri Doria wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 27-Jul-14 11:41, Fouad Bajwa wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">somehow remain very uncomfortable with the term equal footing. EF <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">will never give balance in MSism and decision making situations. <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Anyways, so much has been said on this but it still remains politically incorrect.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I tend to disagree. For me it is a critical phrase in the definition <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">for the very reason that I beleive it has been misappropriated by a <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">few governments and misunderstood by many. It is such a simple term, <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">with a simple metaphoric meaning, that I do intend to keep on using <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">it. And I think that many different groups can be on an equal footing <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">with each other at the same time. For example, we could have a global <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">multistakeholder event like the NETmundial were everyone is on equal <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">footing. Yet, when the governments went off amongst themselves to <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">discuss things, they were also on an equal footing, as were the CS <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">folk when they went off to talk among themselves. To my mind there is <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">no dialogue without equal footing, it becomes more command/supplicant <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">exchange without equal footing.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I personally think that the more decisions that are actually made on <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">an equal footing the better. But the realist in me realizes that we <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">aren't there yet, just like we probably won't reach global direct <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">democracy in my lifetime. That is why I indicate that in those cases, <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">where the final decision making is not done on a equal footing, it <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"may be assigned to a single stakeholder group" and that "these <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">decision makers are always accountable to all of the stakeholders for <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">their decisions and the implementations." Implementation is rarely multistakeholder.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The assigned decision makers for some things may be governments, we <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">obviously have different viewpoints on the utility of governments in <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">various situations, but I think the definition should be neutral as to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">particular cases The decsions maker may also be the IESG, when talking<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">about an IP protocol, the ICANN Board when talking about a gTLD policy <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">or the coder when talking about a new bit of system architecture <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">design in a multistakeholder committee, etc. Or WIPO on property, or <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the ITU on telephone numbers. The point is that as much as possible <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the discussion leading up to the actual decisions, including the <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">recommendation of solutions, it should be multistakeholder. And in as <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">many cases as possible we should aim for equal footing even at the decision level.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">As I said I tried to make the definition I use to explain it to people <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">neutral in that respect. I find it works well for me both in <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">explaining things, in studying things and in modeling various real <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">life scenarios and in tactical thinking for advocacy.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Your mileage may vary.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">avri<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br><br><br><br>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>