<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:collapse"><div>
McTim,</div><div><br></div><div>You keep making this point that all the woes of MSism come from, and only from, the ITU/WSIS breed.</div><div>First of all, I'd contend that the constituency-based approach at ICANN was and still is an instance of MSism. Don't take my word for it; as soon as the WSIS process made the term 'multistakeholder' fashionable, we've heard it a lot reclaimed in ICANN's ranks. So much so that they have now re-devised their old constituency groupings into stakeholder groupings. However, as far as I know, ICANN only dealt with its direct stakeholders as organization, that is, the domain name industry, the technical community (security and stability aspects of the net), and the business, particularly via the lenses of IPR issues. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Yes, I'm aware of the very early failed attempt at direct voting by end users for their reps on the board of directors, but after that it took many years for the Noncommercial user constituency to be recognized (only as part of the GNSO community) and for ICANN itself to get the ALAC structures going. (Please feel free to correct me or complete if I'm missing any major aspect of things here; I'm just summarizing on the flight.) At the end of the day, constituencies and stakeholders at ICANN have also had to be divided into separate groupings with an identity label -- and so it was before WSIS started.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Was that then a perfect instance of MSism which ITU-WSIS came to spoil? I just once to have this clarified once for all as to what you exactly mean everything you point to ITU as having put the worm in the fruit (or whatever colloquialism I'm missing to remember correctly here) by delineating stakeholder groups as it did during the WSIS process. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Beyond that, I'd also appreciate if you can give references or pointers to any clear formulations (e.g, RFC or excerpt of charter, of rules and operating procedures of relevant groups, or other informal text that may have served for guidance in implementing MSism, etc.) of instances of MSism you deem successful or which should be taken as reference (such as any version of "<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px">MSism that built and developed the </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px">Internet for the last 3+ decades.") My apologies if that has been done before, as I suspect it could have.</span></div>
</span></span></span></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px">Thanks and cheers,</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px">Mawaki</span></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 4:15 PM, McTim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com" target="_blank">dogwallah@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
All,<br>
<div class=""><br>
<br>
On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Norbert Bollow <<a href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch">nb@bollow.ch</a>> wrote:<br>
> On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 07:44:26 -0700<br>
> "michael gurstein" <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> In other words "equal footing for foxes and hens", sounds pretty good<br>
>> in theory, in practice not so good (for the hens... exceptionally<br>
>> good for the foxes...<br>
><br>
> Equal footing means that the hens must not use their wings to try to<br>
> escape?<br>
><br>
> SCNR (=Sorry, could not resist.)<br>
><br>
> On a more serious note, how should the following be classified?<br>
><br>
> During the drafting process for the Paris WSIS+10 outcome document, the<br>
> UNESCO guy running the process essentially simply turned deaf ears to<br>
> the proposal to include a reference to the civil society WSIS<br>
> declaration alongside the governmental one.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>We have to keep in mind that the "MS" IG processes which emanate from<br>
Geneva are not the same sort of MSism that built and developed the<br>
Internet for the last 3+ decades. Those are the models we should be<br>
using, NOT the ones that come from Geneva.<br>
<span class=""><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
McTim<br>
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A<br>
route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel<br>
<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>