<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">From Avri's definition to Avri's new comment, I see quite a stretch! Thanks to that comment, the room for consensus with the other definition by Parminder is suddenly getting much smaller than what it seemed. The suggested definition was an interesting step forward in terms of trying to elaborate a CS consensus. But a so-called equal footing decision making at the public policy level for all stakeholders is a no go from my end.<div><br></div><div>I respect Avri's opinion about her tending to think that the more decisions are actually made on equal footing the better. But I fully disagree on both principles in terms of political science or political philosophy levels, and pragmatic level. Reality has brought me to see that this equal footing decision making is the most poisonous and insidious thing I can think of when it comes to public interest.</div><div><br></div><div>Moreover the absence of clarity about roles and definitions can only maintain a dangerous state of governance. <i>Pilotage à vue</i>, or governance with a <i>géométrie variable</i> can only favor asymmetry of diverse kinds. Does that serve best the public interest? Will the "Just ask and we will let you know later on, who is in charge on this one?" Aren't we done with that thinking?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>JC</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>Le 27 juil. 2014 à 14:32, Avri Doria a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><br><br>On 27-Jul-14 11:41, Fouad Bajwa wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">somehow remain very uncomfortable with the term equal footing. EF will<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">never give balance in MSism and decision making situations. Anyways, so<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">much has been said on this but it still remains politically incorrect.<br></blockquote><br><br>I tend to disagree. For me it is a critical phrase in the definition<br>for the very reason that I beleive it has been misappropriated by a few<br>governments and misunderstood by many. It is such a simple term, with a<br>simple metaphoric meaning, that I do intend to keep on using it. And I<br>think that many different groups can be on an equal footing with each<br>other at the same time. For example, we could have a global<br>multistakeholder event like the NETmundial were everyone is on equal<br>footing. Yet, when the governments went off amongst themselves to<br>discuss things, they were also on an equal footing, as were the CS folk<br>when they went off to talk among themselves. To my mind there is no<br>dialogue without equal footing, it becomes more command/supplicant<br>exchange without equal footing.<br><br>I personally think that the more decisions that are actually made on an<br>equal footing the better. But the realist in me realizes that we aren't<br>there yet, just like we probably won't reach global direct democracy in<br>my lifetime. That is why I indicate that in those cases, where the<br>final decision making is not done on a equal footing, it "may be<br>assigned to a single stakeholder group" and that "these decision makers<br>are always accountable to all of the stakeholders for their decisions<br>and the implementations." Implementation is rarely multistakeholder.<br><br>The assigned decision makers for some things may be governments, we<br>obviously have different viewpoints on the utility of governments in<br>various situations, but I think the definition should be neutral as to<br>particular cases The decsions maker may also be the IESG, when talking<br>about an IP protocol, the ICANN Board when talking about a gTLD policy<br>or the coder when talking about a new bit of system architecture design<br>in a multistakeholder committee, etc. Or WIPO on property, or the ITU on<br>telephone numbers. The point is that as much as possible the discussion<br>leading up to the actual decisions, including the recommendation of<br>solutions, it should be multistakeholder. And in as many cases as<br>possible we should aim for equal footing even at the decision level.<br><br>As I said I tried to make the definition I use to explain it to people<br>neutral in that respect. I find it works well for me both in explaining<br>things, in studying things and in modeling various real life scenarios<br>and in tactical thinking for advocacy.<br><br>Your mileage may vary.<br><br>avri<br><br>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>