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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Underlying that question, Ian is a rather more fundamental one which equally needs to be resolved and that is who is the “we” that you are presenting yourself as speaking from/on behalf of.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is it the 50-100 or so of those calling themselves “civil society” active in these discussions?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is it the several hundreds who present themselves as speaking for “civil society” at discussions like NetMundial/IGF.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is it the somewhat larger but still very small numbers of those involved in the civil society networks aware of and concerned with these issues and being represented (or not) in forums such as NetMundial.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Or is it the broad range of “civil society” who in their vast and increasing numbers have a direct stake in these issues but have yet to fully recognize their significance in the midst of the range of other equally crucial issues that they are currently confronting at all levels.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Depending on how you/others choose to answer and respond through your actions to that question a different result for your question is likely to entail.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ian Peter<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:09 AM<br><b>To:</b> Mawaki Chango; Internet Governance<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Consensus or rough consensus?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Hi Mawaki,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>> The question is, can we ever come up with basic principles that will be broadly accepted as foundation for the legitimacy of MSm in some type of settings/contexts. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I think Net Mundial made a good but imperfect attempt at this.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>But equally, is there any way with MSism we can improve on the serious problems that exist with UN system? There are countless examples within current international systems of nation state votes being bought by promises of increased foreign aid etc, and of nation state positions being determined by corporate interests. So we already have a system which is quite flawed, and is stifled whenever it attempts to make any change that affects the status quo. My question is can we improve on it?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I don ‘t yet see how any system or systemic change is going to completely stop powerful interests dictating policy to less powerful ones. However, I am wondering whether rough consensus is going to be useful or dangerous in this context.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Ian<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:kichango@gmail.com" title="kichango@gmail.com">Mawaki Chango</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:58 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" title="governance@lists.igcaucus.org">Internet Governance</a> ; <a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" title="ian.peter@ianpeter.com">Ian Peter</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Re: [governance] Consensus or rough consensus?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Interesting perspective, Ian. My first thought is that like anything else regarding MSm* the devil will be in how MSr* are defined, structured and organized as well as how their voice factors in the process and outcome. That is the Achilles' heel of any MSr process lies, IMO. The question is, can we ever come up with basic principles that will be broadly accepted as foundation for the legitimacy of MSm in some type of settings/contexts. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Sorry if I don't directly reply to your question.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Mawaki <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>MSm = multistakeholderism<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>MSr = multistakeholder<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#500050'>=================<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Mawaki Chango, PhD<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Founder and Owner<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>DIGILEXIS<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222'><a href="http://www.digilexis.com/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1155CC'>http://www.digilexis.com</span></a> <br>Skype: digilexis | Twitter: @digilexis & @pro_digilexis<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:35 PM, Ian Peter <<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>I’m interested to know people’s thoughts about the advisability of civil society promoting the “rough consensus” model of decision making as differing from what I will call “UN consensus”.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>“UN consensus” is what we see happening in most UN decision making processes, some related international organisations, and also saw at NetMundial. This consensus model allows any one party to stand against adoption of any particular wording, even if the vast majority of parties present think otherwise. This leads to some less acceptable outcomes.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>I think it is reasonable to say that “UN consensus” has been stifling in many instances and has inhibited progress in many areas. </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Rough consensus could lead to different outcomes. For instance, in the NetMundial situation, it would have led to the stronger statements on surveillance, intermediate liability and net neutrality being maintained in the text, rather than being removed at the last moment due to the demands of a small number of government and business interests. </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>In other words, in this example at least, the mood of the meeting and the desires of the vast majority of participants would have been better reflected with a rough consensus decision making mechanism than with UN style consensus.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>However, there is a danger here – minorities are not necessarily protected in rough consensus and more widespread adoption of a rough consensus decision making model could lead to suppression of some viewpoints. However, in a stakeholder model such as NetMundial needing rough consensus in all stakeholder groups would offer significant protection.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'> So I am interested in any thoughts on the best model for us to promote here.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='color:#888888'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='color:#888888'>Ian Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><br>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" target="_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>