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Dear All,<br>
<br>
<font face="Calibri"><big>I don't have the final numbers (I am
already working on that), but the initial agreement was that <br>
<b>50% of all infrastructure expenses</b></big><b> </b>(</font><font
face="Calibri"><font face="Calibri"><font face="Comic Sans MS">hotel
rooms, lunch and coffee breaks, WiFi, translation in 07 <br>
languages, interconnection of hubs, YouTube and streaming for
the world) </font></font><big><b>would be supported </b><b><br>
</b><b>by CGI.br</b> (<u>without</u><u> any support from the
brazilian government - with exception of the free VISAS <br>
for all participants)</u> and the other 50% by /1net</big></font><big>
related entities. The exception on this agreement <br>
was for the travel support: CGI.br don't contributed nothing for
the "Travel Fund". This Fund was <br>
supported by international "third parties" and I don't have these
numbers.<br>
<br>
best<br>
<br>
Hartmut Glaser<br>
</big><br>
============================================================<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/05/14 19:13, Jean-Christophe
NOTHIAS I The Global Journal wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:E5684FAC-A2D7-4DEE-B94A-61888012C535@theglobaljournal.net"
type="cite">Dear Harmut,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for that. To avoid any misunderstanding, Netmundial
was officially supported by <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://CGI.br">CGI.br</a> and ICANN. Right? Do we have
any breakdown? Does <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://CGI.br">CGI.br</a> receive money from the
Brazilian government, and/or private corporations and
foundations? Correct? Just to have a clear picture. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As you kindly give us an information regarding funding, I am
asking these questions just for the record, as my primary
intention is to see how we could have a specific dialogue with
other CS regarding the different visions of what could be a
complete new eco-system for the governance of Internet. What
would it be in 2020 let's say. This would not require any
specific expenses. That would require willingness, time and
openness. But this would not be per say a multistakeholder
thing. It would a multiparty CS process. I am curious to see if
CS can gain over some common ground. It seems like some CS (see
previous emails from Stephanie, Seun) already consider that it
would be impossible to do so, </div>
<div>- as everything is so intertwined with other stakeholders</div>
<div>- talking to each other in CS would isolate CS from other
stakeholders</div>
<div>- it might upset hosting power, or other stakeholders, that
are presently listening to CS. So in order not to lose these
friendly ears, CS could avoid looking for a "free word" that
could endanger their current cooperation with other
stakeholders.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am trying to keep up with arguments but might still be
wrong in my wrapping-up, and therefore happy to be corrected.
Happy as well to have more comments and opinions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will shortly provide a short state of the current CS
visions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best to you as well,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>JC<br>
<div>
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class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2;
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class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2;
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class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect:
none; ">__________________________<br>
<br>
<div
style="border-collapse:
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0px; "><font
class="Apple-style-span"
color="#5c5c5c" face="'Geneva CY'"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size:
11px; ">Jean-Christophe
Nothias <br>
Editor and
head of
strategy at
GLOBAL_GENEVA<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a><br>
</span></font></div>
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style="font-size:
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</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br>
</span>
</span></span></span></span></div>
<br>
<div>
<div>Le 1 mai 2014 à 23:36, Hartmut Richard Glaser a écrit :</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <font face="Calibri"><br>
Dear All,<br>
<br>
To avoid any misunderstanding, the financial support in
Brazil for NETmundial was NOT from government, but <br>
was from <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://CGI.br">CGI.br</a>,
a non-for-profit multistakeholder entity.<br>
<br>
best<br>
<br>
Hartmut Glaser<br>
<br>
====================================<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/05/14 17:04, Stephanie
Perrin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:D50688B1-39F5-4A83-9158-417A42F19822@mail.utoronto.ca"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
Exactly!
<div>SP<br>
<div style="">
<div>On May 1, 2014, at 2:32 PM, Seun Ojedeji <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>And i wasn't referring to this either,
support goes beyond the USD. For instance, the
support of Brazil definitely goes beyond cash.
When you get support of government so well (as
exhibited at NetMundial) you can at least
leave the event with assurance that your voice
was heard (and not when you make the noise in
isolation)<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Thanks<br>
<br>
</div>
Cheers!<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 1, 2014 at
6:59 PM, Stephanie Perrin <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">The
reality that I was referring to is
captured in this sentence: <b>However I
think we should remember that civil
society without support from others
(most especially government and perhaps
business) is just a dream that could be
far from reality.</b>
<div> By support, I meant actually
cooperation. IN a multi-stakeholder
process, you have to accept that there
are other stakeholders, and you actually
have to talk to them and figure out what
they need from your collective
endeavour. That is what I meant. Civil
Society cannot do this alone. They will
achieve little without partners. I was
actually not referring to financial
support, and should have clarified that,
my apologies. </div>
<div>Kind regards, </div>
<div><span class="HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888">Stephanie</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<div>
<div>On May 1, 2014, at 1:27 PM,
Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The
Global Journal <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net"
target="_blank">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">Thanks
for your answer and interest,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As an independent media
editor, I must confess a
little surprise to the
arguments you put on the
table. Are you saying that
an open dialogue over the
different visions we can
have of a future eco-system
could endanger your source
of funding? "If it did not
receive support from the
host". Were the host in the
case of Netmundial, ICANN or
Brazil? Any one else? Are
you not free of your
opinion? We know the say:
"who pays for the musicians
chose the music". Do you
think the CS in Sao Paulo
were concerned with pleasing
their hosts? But is this
what I should understand
from that first argument?
Are CS entities that
dependent to their
respective mentors and
hosts? Is this the reality
Stephanie refers to?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2/ Do you see the idea of
being independent as a way
to endanger the success of
Netmundial? How shall we
measure this success remains
to be seen. So far,
Netmundial has achieved
little concrete evidence - I
assume we can agree on this.
The outcome document is not
exactly a consensus, and
some of its language remain
fragile to many when
concrete changes could be
envisioned. It is a non
binding statement. So where
is the danger to have an
open debate over different
eco-systems?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am trying sincerely to
understand what means your
message.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The dialogue I am calling
for will cost zero. Except
for the time to put in it.
Would you say that
participating could be a
danger? Thanks for
correcting me and
elaborating a bit about the
reality Stephanie and you
are referring to.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>JC</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Le 1 mai 2014 à
18:07, Stephanie Perrin
a écrit :</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
+1 A welcome reminder
of reality.
<div> Stephanie Perrin<br>
<div>
<div>On May 1,
2014, at 8:47
AM, Seun Ojedeji
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Aluta
continua! The
challenge you
pose towards
the end of
your mail is
great. However
I think we
should
remember that
civil society
without
support from
others (most
especially
government and
perhaps
business) is
just a dream
that could be
far from
reality.
NETMundial
would have
been such a
dream if it
did not
receive
support from
the host. </p>
<p dir="ltr">So
while we get
excited about
the successes
of NETMundial
and "threaten"
the existing
IG system(for
positive
improvement),
I think our
acts should
not lean
towards being
independent
but rather
towards
collaborative
independence
for them
overall
sustainability
of the
internet
democracy.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Thanks<br>
sent from
Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse
brevity and
typos.</p>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
1 May 2014
13:26,
"Jean-Christophe
NOTHIAS I The
Global
Journal" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net"
target="_blank">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a>>
wrote:<br
type="attribution">
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0
0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Optima;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:inherit">I
think the
reality of
Netmundial
outcome is
still very
uncertain.
What can we do
with a
statement that
is understood
differently by
each
participant.
Faithful to
WSIS, Post
WSIS, ICANN++,
ICANN--...</span></div>
<div><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Optima;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:inherit"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px"><span
style="text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px"><span
style="text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="font-family:Optima;font-size:inherit;border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="font-family:Optima;font-size:inherit;border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="font-family:Optima;font-size:inherit;border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">1.
MSism has many
faces. We need
to know what
each of these
faces is.
Let's have a
clear
understanding
of the many
visions - I
would not dare
speaking about
philosophy
here, but it
should be more
of that now.<br>
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span>2.
From the many
comments, it
seems like the
CS is not less
divided, but
more divided.
That is a
clear defeat,
not an
achievement of
any sort. Even
the final
statement is
now being
opposed by
some in the
CS. Am I
amazed?</span></div>
<div><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Optima;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:inherit">3.
Until CS would
be able to
reach a zone
of possible
agreement and
common stance,
we will stay
far far away
from achieving
any changes. I
am among the
ones who say
that clearly,
many years
have been
lost, thanks
to CS
division.
from that
when we read
comments from
all over</span></div>
<div><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Optima;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:inherit">4.
Nnenna speech
is the
critical
starting
point, not the
final outcome
document : we
are beginning
to have more
details
regarding the
overall flaw
process - from
the very
beginning.</span></div>
<div>5. How
could we even
think of 2019,
when we have a
2015 deadline?</div>
<div>6. IGF is
still in
jeopardy and
with no
serious means
to pursue any
serious
objective</div>
<div>7. The
fact that
Disney was
able to obtain
through some
CS
participants a
couple of very
unexpected
changes in the
final draft in
Netmundial
means that
there is a lot
of danger in
the process
that needs to
be addressed.</div>
<div>8. How
can we
consider that
IGF should
take
Netmundial as
a mode, when
from the very
beginning they
were critical
problems,
un-addressed,
and un-solved.</div>
<div>9. THere
are so many
diverse
reading of the
final
document, that
all of that
serves the US
status quo, or
its version
2.0 being an
ICANN/IANA
with some
global window
dressing -
open an office
here and
there, like in
the old
colonial
times.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Contrary
to what
Jeanette's
concerns (what
if no final
outcome
document), a
crisis might
sometimes
bring more
action and
concrete
changes; if CS
would not lose
time to fight
for having a
seat in the
different
venues where
gov, private
sector are
playing their
game, then CS
could come to
a common
position.
Based on this,
CS could
really
represent a
serious power
in the game.
It is not the
case today.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If I
refer to the
Just Net
Coalition, I
see an honest
effort to
bridge gaps
between
various
players of CS,
coming to a
strong common
stance. JNC
will keep
growing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Why,
instead of
waiting 5
years for
another
Netmundial,
wouldn't the
CS come
together and
find this
common ground
that is so
necessary. Out
of the I*, out
of the 5 eyes,
out of
governments.
There are
diverse
visions of
what could
Internet
Governance be.
John said
there was no
alternative to
the current
governance. He
is right to
ask for that.
An alternative
has been
presented as a
submission to
Netmundial.
Other could
emerge from
diverse
opinions and
grounds. This
one is fully
democratic in
essence, and
multiparty in
elaboration. <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://content.netmundial.br/contribution/the-next-best-stage-for-the-future-of-internet-governance-is-democracy/305"
target="_blank">A World Internet Forum (next stage for IGF) and a World
Internet
Organization</a> are
the natural
next steps. An
original pair
would bring
guaranties to
many issues.
When is it
that
NetMundial
even mention
it? It is far
from perfect.
I am willing
to see what a
Milton can do,
or an Avri, or
a jfc, or
whoever, and
the usual
tenants of the
monopolistic
thinking of
ICANN, and
their
un-fragmented
market
orientation.
One root zone
for all under
US oversight.
Instead of
arguing vainly
over the IANA
transition to
ICANN, decided
by the USG and
ICANN itself,
why the CS
forces do not
confront each
other vision
of what could
be a full
eco-system of
governance for
the Internet
now. 2015 is
tomorrow and
ICANN is
aiming at
being
officially the
policy maker
of the
Internet - so
far it was
supposed to
care only
about naming
and
addressing. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In the
interest of
the public
(this is
supposed to be
the CS major
concern)?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A little
courage, as
seen in
Nnenna's
speech (she
said she
listened to
many to put
her words on
paper, then in
front of the
world), would
be welcome. We
need a
CSMundial for
Internet. Now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>JC</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Post-scriptum:</div>
<div>John,</div>
<div>Ready to
engage an
honest
conversation
about
alternative
eco-system for
the Internet
governance?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>JC</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>Le 1 mai
2014 à 13:46,
John Curran a
écrit :</div>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">On
May 1, 2014,
at 1:51 AM,
Kleinwächter,
Wolfgang <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de"
target="_blank">wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">What
about starting
to think about
a Net Mundial
II in 2019?
This would
help to keep
some of the
working
mechanism of
Net Mundial
Sao Paulo
alive and give
a perspective
(and an
alterantive to
WSIS 10+ and
beyond). Net
Mundial could
become
something like
the olympics
which takes
place in a
four or five
year cycle
with the
annual world
championship
(IGF) in
between. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
If IGF could
very quickly
evolve to
achieve the
same models <br>
of engagement,
and focus, and
outcome
development,
then a <br>
repeat in 2019
would be
wonderful...<br>
<br>
If IGF needs
more time (for
whatever
reason) to
realize such<br>
improvements,
then 5 years
is a _very
long_ time to
expect to <br>
maintain any
momentum. If
you had said
2015 (and
succeeding <br>
years until
IGF has
evolved
accordingly),
then we'd be
in <br>
agreement. It
would seem to
me that
indicating
today the plan<br>
for a
follow-on
NETmundial in
2019 would
completely
hollow out <br>
the current
momentum and
pressure for
meaningful IGF
reform <br>
that we've
just very
successfully
created.<br>
<br>
/John<br>
<br>
Disclaimer: My
views alone.<br>
<br>
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<font color="#888888">
<blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun
Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal
University Oye-Ekiti<br
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web:
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/"
target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span
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<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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key to understanding is humility - my
view !<br>
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