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Dear All,<br>
<br>
To avoid any misunderstanding, the financial support in Brazil for
NETmundial was NOT from government, but <br>
was from CGI.br, a non-for-profit multistakeholder entity.<br>
<br>
best<br>
<br>
Hartmut Glaser<br>
<br>
====================================<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/05/14 17:04, Stephanie Perrin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:D50688B1-39F5-4A83-9158-417A42F19822@mail.utoronto.ca"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Exactly!
<div>SP<br>
<div style="">
<div>On May 1, 2014, at 2:32 PM, Seun Ojedeji <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>And i wasn't referring to this either, support goes
beyond the USD. For instance, the support of Brazil
definitely goes beyond cash. When you get support of
government so well (as exhibited at NetMundial) you can
at least leave the event with assurance that your voice
was heard (and not when you make the noise in isolation)<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Thanks<br>
<br>
</div>
Cheers!<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 6:59 PM,
Stephanie Perrin <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">The reality that I
was referring to is captured in this sentence: <b>However
I think we should remember that civil society
without support from others (most especially
government and perhaps business) is just a dream
that could be far from reality.</b>
<div>
By support, I meant actually cooperation. IN a
multi-stakeholder process, you have to accept that
there are other stakeholders, and you actually
have to talk to them and figure out what they need
from your collective endeavour. That is what I
meant. Civil Society cannot do this alone. They
will achieve little without partners. I was
actually not referring to financial support, and
should have clarified that, my apologies. </div>
<div>Kind regards, </div>
<div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Stephanie</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<div>
<div>On May 1, 2014, at 1:27 PM,
Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global
Journal <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net"
target="_blank">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Thanks
for your answer and interest,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As an independent media editor, I
must confess a little surprise to the
arguments you put on the table. Are
you saying that an open dialogue over
the different visions we can have of a
future eco-system could endanger your
source of funding? "If it did not
receive support from the host". Were
the host in the case of Netmundial,
ICANN or Brazil? Any one else? Are you
not free of your opinion? We know the
say: "who pays for the musicians chose
the music". Do you think the CS in Sao
Paulo were concerned with pleasing
their hosts? But is this what I should
understand from that first argument?
Are CS entities that dependent to
their respective mentors and hosts? Is
this the reality Stephanie refers to?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2/ Do you see the idea of being
independent as a way to endanger the
success of Netmundial? How shall we
measure this success remains to be
seen. So far, Netmundial has achieved
little concrete evidence - I assume we
can agree on this. The outcome
document is not exactly a consensus,
and some of its language remain
fragile to many when concrete changes
could be envisioned. It is a non
binding statement. So where is the
danger to have an open debate over
different eco-systems?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am trying sincerely to understand
what means your message.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The dialogue I am calling for will
cost zero. Except for the time to put
in it. Would you say that
participating could be a danger?
Thanks for correcting me and
elaborating a bit about the reality
Stephanie and you are referring to.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>JC</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Le 1 mai 2014 à 18:07,
Stephanie Perrin a écrit :</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
+1 A welcome reminder of
reality.
<div>
Stephanie Perrin<br>
<div>
<div>On May 1, 2014, at 8:47
AM, Seun Ojedeji <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com"
target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Aluta
continua! The challenge
you pose towards the end
of your mail is great.
However I think we
should remember that
civil society without
support from others
(most especially
government and perhaps
business) is just a
dream that could be far
from reality. NETMundial
would have been such a
dream if it did not
receive support from the
host. </p>
<p dir="ltr">So while we
get excited about the
successes of NETMundial
and "threaten" the
existing IG system(for
positive improvement), I
think our acts should
not lean towards being
independent but rather
towards collaborative
independence for them
overall sustainability
of the internet
democracy.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Thanks<br>
sent from Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse brevity
and typos.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
1 May 2014 13:26,
"Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS
I The Global Journal"
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net" target="_blank">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a>>
wrote:<br
type="attribution">
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Optima;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:inherit">I
think the
reality of
Netmundial
outcome is still
very uncertain.
What can we do
with a statement
that is
understood
differently by
each
participant.
Faithful to
WSIS, Post WSIS,
ICANN++,
ICANN--...</span></div>
<div><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Optima;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:inherit"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px"><span
style="text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px"><span
style="text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="font-family:Optima;font-size:inherit;border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="font-family:Optima;font-size:inherit;border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="font-family:Optima;font-size:inherit;border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">1.
MSism has many
faces. We need
to know what
each of these
faces is.
Let's have a
clear
understanding
of the many
visions - I
would not dare
speaking about
philosophy
here, but it
should be more
of that now.<br>
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span>2.
From the many
comments, it
seems like the
CS is not less
divided, but
more divided.
That is a clear
defeat, not an
achievement of
any sort. Even
the final
statement is now
being opposed by
some in the CS.
Am I amazed?</span></div>
<div><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Optima;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:inherit">3.
Until CS would
be able to reach
a zone of
possible
agreement and
common stance,
we will stay far
far away from
achieving any
changes. I am
among the ones
who say that
clearly, many
years have been
lost, thanks to
CS division.
from that when
we read comments
from all over</span></div>
<div><span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Optima;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:inherit">4.
Nnenna speech is
the critical
starting point,
not the final
outcome document
: we are
beginning to
have more
details
regarding the
overall flaw
process - from
the very
beginning.</span></div>
<div>5. How could we
even think of
2019, when we have
a 2015 deadline?</div>
<div>6. IGF is still
in jeopardy and
with no serious
means to pursue
any serious
objective</div>
<div>7. The fact
that Disney was
able to obtain
through some CS
participants a
couple of very
unexpected changes
in the final draft
in Netmundial
means that there
is a lot of danger
in the process
that needs to be
addressed.</div>
<div>8. How can we
consider that IGF
should take
Netmundial as a
mode, when from
the very beginning
they were critical
problems,
un-addressed, and
un-solved.</div>
<div>9. THere are so
many diverse
reading of the
final document,
that all of that
serves the US
status quo, or its
version 2.0 being
an ICANN/IANA with
some global window
dressing - open an
office here and
there, like in the
old colonial
times.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Contrary to
what Jeanette's
concerns (what if
no final outcome
document), a
crisis might
sometimes bring
more action and
concrete changes;
if CS would not
lose time to fight
for having a seat
in the different
venues where gov,
private sector are
playing their
game, then CS
could come to a
common position.
Based on this, CS
could really
represent a
serious power in
the game. It is
not the case
today.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If I refer to
the Just Net
Coalition, I see
an honest effort
to bridge gaps
between various
players of CS,
coming to a strong
common stance. JNC
will keep growing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Why, instead of
waiting 5 years
for another
Netmundial,
wouldn't the CS
come together and
find this common
ground that is so
necessary. Out of
the I*, out of the
5 eyes, out of
governments. There
are diverse
visions of what
could Internet
Governance be.
John said there
was no alternative
to the current
governance. He is
right to ask for
that. An
alternative has
been presented as
a submission to
Netmundial. Other
could emerge from
diverse opinions
and grounds. This
one is fully
democratic in
essence, and
multiparty in
elaboration. <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://content.netmundial.br/contribution/the-next-best-stage-for-the-future-of-internet-governance-is-democracy/305"
target="_blank">A
World Internet
Forum (next
stage for IGF)
and a World
Internet
Organization</a> are
the natural next
steps. An original
pair would bring
guaranties to many
issues. When is it
that NetMundial
even mention it?
It is far from
perfect. I am
willing to see
what a Milton can
do, or an Avri, or
a jfc, or whoever,
and the usual
tenants of the
monopolistic
thinking of ICANN,
and their
un-fragmented
market
orientation. One
root zone for all
under US
oversight. Instead
of arguing vainly
over the IANA
transition to
ICANN, decided by
the USG and ICANN
itself, why the CS
forces do not
confront each
other vision of
what could be a
full eco-system of
governance for the
Internet now. 2015
is tomorrow and
ICANN is aiming at
being officially
the policy maker
of the Internet -
so far it was
supposed to care
only about naming
and addressing. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In the interest
of the public
(this is supposed
to be the CS major
concern)?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A little
courage, as seen
in Nnenna's speech
(she said she
listened to many
to put her words
on paper, then in
front of the
world), would be
welcome. We need a
CSMundial for
Internet. Now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>JC</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Post-scriptum:</div>
<div>John,</div>
<div>Ready to engage
an honest
conversation about
alternative
eco-system for the
Internet
governance?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>JC</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>Le 1 mai 2014
à 13:46, John
Curran a écrit :</div>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">On
May 1, 2014, at
1:51 AM,
Kleinwächter,
Wolfgang <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de"
target="_blank">wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">What
about starting
to think about
a Net Mundial
II in 2019?
This would
help to keep
some of the
working
mechanism of
Net Mundial
Sao Paulo
alive and give
a perspective
(and an
alterantive to
WSIS 10+ and
beyond). Net
Mundial could
become
something like
the olympics
which takes
place in a
four or five
year cycle
with the
annual world
championship
(IGF) in
between. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
If IGF could
very quickly
evolve to
achieve the same
models <br>
of engagement,
and focus, and
outcome
development,
then a <br>
repeat in 2019
would be
wonderful...<br>
<br>
If IGF needs
more time (for
whatever reason)
to realize such<br>
improvements,
then 5 years is
a _very long_
time to expect
to <br>
maintain any
momentum. If
you had said
2015 (and
succeeding <br>
years until IGF
has evolved
accordingly),
then we'd be in
<br>
agreement. It
would seem to me
that indicating
today the plan<br>
for a follow-on
NETmundial in
2019 would
completely
hollow out <br>
the current
momentum and
pressure for
meaningful IGF
reform <br>
that we've just
very
successfully
created.<br>
<br>
/John<br>
<br>
Disclaimer: My
views alone.<br>
<br>
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<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<font color="#888888">
<blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal
University Oye-Ekiti<br
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web:
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br>
</i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://goog_1872880453/" target="_blank">
</a><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng"
target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br>
<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to
understanding is humility - my view !<br>
</blockquote>
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