<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>You have had your say.</div><div><br></div><div>I would prefer that the other signatories to that letter respond, either privately to the co cos or in public but after netmundial.<br><br>Her appointment is done and this petty controversy amd politicking is distracting from much larger policy goals.</div><div><br>--srs (iPad)</div><div><br>On 20-Apr-2014, at 6:24, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<font face="Verdana">Dear Ian and Carlos,<br>
<br>
Perhaps it does not behove me to say this since I am quite junior
to both of you in the global IG civil society space - but then I
feel that it is my unhappy duty to say it: I am pained that you
have put your considerable reputation and goodwill in this space
in service of defending what patently is political corruption of
the highest order, that too with regard to a model of MSism which
you both so vigorously promote. <br>
<br>
Yes, this particular instance is one of pure and simple political
corruption of the highest order, the kind which normally
immediately produces reactions of revulsion and outrage in civil
society groups...It is not personal. Thousands teach in colleges
and have political and social ambitions, and take various kinds of
routes to pursue them; similarly thousands work in NGOs like I do.
I dont think any of the signatories of the letter from Indian CS
groups was in any kind of keen competition to be in NetMundial
organisational positions. So, it should not matter to us that much
who becomes the top CS reps to the MetMundial... In any case, such
is the diversity and structural dis-organisation of civil society
that different, often very unexpected, kinds of appointments from
civil society regularly takes place, and we may whisper and
complain among ourselves but always let it be... It is kind of
part of being civil society. <br>
<br>
This present one is not such a case. And in my view, for anyone
willing to be on guard against such subversions, it is not
difficult to see the nature of the issue here. As said, it is a
case of highest political corruption.. Big business from the US,
backed by some strong political interests in that country, have
been working in India for 2-3 years now to subvert India's
political processes around IG basically with the objective to keep
its voice silent on the global level... There have been much
discussion inside India lately on this phenomenon including some
news reports. Will cut this story short.... What I am coming to
is, it is as a part of this political strategy that Sub was
picked up and promoted as a 'civil society voice' in India. India
has a proud culture of vibrant democracy and a rather mature civil
society, whereby it is of course absolutely unacceptable for us,
Indian civil society groups, that such a political subversion and
corruption takes place. This was and remains the cause of our
strong reaction. <br>
<br>
When, as they say in India, we saw the water go over the head,
with Subi's appointment as civil society co-chair of NetMundial,
Indian civil society groups took it as their responsibility to
bring the facts to the table, and make global actors cognizant
about them. It is not an easy decision to take - we all know that
while one has to work hard and devote much time to such kind of a
thing, there will also always be considerable comebacks, because
we are dealing with actors who are extremely resourcefully
(obvious, when a completely unknown person can suddenly be placed
at the CS head position of a major global meeting), and therefore
expectation of counter personal attacks, as indeed have been
happening. It perhaps is this reason that most of the other
signatories of the letter have not come out publicly on this list
to present and push the case. (BTW, I may disclose that I was
neither the party to initiate the collective letter nor the news
item in Hindustan Times; just so that you all know.)<br>
<br>
What was surprising is that, when practically all civil society
groups in India, who are engaged with IG work - and have extensive
work relationships with all other global actors, often stronger
than they have among themselves - came out to present the facts on
the ground about the inappropriateness of Subi's selections,
practically no one from the global civil society expressed real
support. (Yes, a good quote from my email to be used by Subi.) I
see this as primarily the fault of the civil society leadership.
They cannot be doing this with their national CS partners,
especially of a country with one seventh of world's population and
whose general maturity of civil society processes cannot </font><font face="Verdana">easily</font> <font face="Verdana">be questioned</font><font face="Verdana"> </font><font face="Verdana">. But the fact that
this did happen points to serious structural flaws in the form and
role of civil society, especially its leadership, in MSist spaces.
No, it is not the civil society groups from India who lost here -
it is the global MSist civil society that has lost, and it may
need to introspect deeply about it, if it ever will...<br>
<br>
Apparently, the testimony of practically all the civil society
groups engaged with IG in India was not enough... Then came<big><b>
</b><a href="http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/executive-of-telecom-giant-that-aided-nsa-spying-is-on-india-s-cyber-security-panel/article1-1205483.aspx"><small>
this investigative report</small></a></big><a href="http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/executive-of-telecom-giant-that-aided-nsa-spying-is-on-india-s-cyber-security-panel/article1-1205483.aspx"><small>
</small></a>from one of the largest and most-respected dailies
of India. A report which I know was being worked for more than 2
months. With extensive interactions inter alia with all people who
have been named</font><font face="Verdana"> adversely</font><font face="Verdana"> in the report... I also happen to know that the
involved people personally met the senior most editors of the
newspaper... All opportunities for defence and clarification were
given, and all testimonies and material accepted. Senior editors </font><font face="Verdana">thoroughly </font><font face="Verdana">went over
all the details overs many days. Do not under-estimate the
difficulty and the </font><font face="Verdana">extent of </font><font face="Verdana">caution required with regard to a news report like
this one which implicates one of the most powerful and entrenched
lobbyist in the capital of India. For a long time when the report
did not appear, I actually thought, well the obvious has happened!
But the newspaper stood its ground and came out with a report
presenting just those facts about which it had absolute evidence,
and which met their very high reporting standards. <br>
<br>
So, you guys dont believe the statement of a full group of Indian
civil society organisations, and you do not believe even the
investigative news report in one of the most highly regarded
newspapers of India, a report which was researched for 2 months.
Well, in that case, it really must take something to make you
believe - or perhaps, you have decided your position already,
which is not to rock the MS (multistakeholder) boat as the highest
priority, with all else paling in comparison. <br>
<br>
Anywhere else, a case of this kind, where first the whole civil
society in an area makes a case, which is then supported by a
well- researched news story, will be an open and shut case for
global civil society to support. But not on this occasion...This
is something you all guys need to answer. There is nothing more
for us, of Indian civil society groups, to say... We are proud
that we did a very difficult civil society task of exposing
political corruption, took an 'insistent' public stand against it,
and refused to be cowed down by cat calls that have become
customary on this list whenever any issue implicating the power of
big business or the US is raised..... <br>
<br>
One last point, though I think it may be superfluous, because you
all know and understand it. People here have been saying that
there is no evidence, which is quite surprising because this is
one of few rare cases (and thus must be pushed hard and fully
capitalised on) where there is actually considerable evidence of
political corruption. Now, this is not a court proceeding, really.
Think of when, say in our own countries, an appointment of an
industry watchdog is made, or for an anti- corruption body. What
is the standard of knowledge and evidence on which civil society
will act on what they may regard as complete inappropriateness of
an appointment - and perhaps write petitions, boycott proceedings,
and so on... Just that level of knowledge and evidence is needed
in this case as well. And it is as clear as daylight that such
knowledge and evidence is indeed available. To act or not, and
whether to denounce or make light of those who indeed are doing
their civil society work, remains your own respective political
decisions. I see that you are inviting Subi to remain undeterred
and continue to engage with civil society here. We too are going
to remain undeterred in doing what we see as the real CS work.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
parminder<br>
<br>
PS: I will not respond to Subi's 'clarifications', and I can
understand her desperation as well the discomfort of those whose
huge interests are affected by this.... However, at one place in
her recent email there is a specific reference to my name,
mentioning that her recent appointment to some position in the WG
on India IGF was with my consent; this is lie typical of much of
her statements ... There was no such consent, something which is
very easy to verify because the room had around 30 people from
gov, industry and CS, and there is also avaiable an official
document coming from the meeting. <br>
<br>
I do however see that the inference from the quote of Marilyn Cade
was an inadvertent error on the part of the journalist. <br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 18 April 2014 06:56 PM,
Carlos A. Afonso wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:535127F4.8010604@cafonso.ca" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Absolutely agree with Ian, including the three wishes.
fraternal regards
--c.a.
On 04/18/2014 12:48 AM, Ian Peter wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Subi,
It would have taken a lot of courage to write that, and to engage here.
I am very glad you did,and thank you for doing so, because it will help
to eventually clear the air.
My first wish is that, whatever the reactions are to your post, you will
continue to engage here with the rest of civil society interested in
internet governance. It’s not always a friendly space, as others have
discovered, but the interchange and dialogue among people with different
perspectives here is important, and leads to more constructive and
valuable inputs for civil society as a whole. Whatever the reactions to
your post are, I hope you continue to engage here.
My second wish is that everyone involved in this dispute can find a way
to move past these issues. That’s not going to be easy, and perhaps not
immediate, but it is important we do so.
My third and final wish is that my first and second wishes come to fruition!
Ian Peter
*From:* Subi Chaturvedi <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:subi.igp@gmail.com"><mailto:subi.igp@gmail.com></a>
*Sent:* Friday, April 18, 2014 7:56 AM
*To:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"><mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org></a>
*Cc:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"><mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net></a>
*Subject:* [governance] Breaking my silence on Netmundial related
concerns raised by colleagues from India
Dear CS colleagues and friends,
This has reference to the article published in HT on 8^th April, 2014
which has been shared and referred to on this mailing list, multiple times.
At the outset I want to thank all of you who have written to me showing
solidarity against this vicious personal attack, based on wrong,
misleading and manipulated information, indicative of a perverse mind,
as you'd realize after, going through this post.
I had chosen to maintain silence in the face of repeatedand grave
provocation but the attacks continue unabated, thwarting and disrupting
all attempts at having any civilized conversation about the key issues
that concern global CS, even on the eve of Netmundial. The reason why
we've invested our energy, faith and considerable amount of time
engaging with the process, in the first place.
I am now also compelled to write this email, for it is unfair on those
who have shown solidarity with me by writing to me or defending me
publicly on this list and elsewhere, to be left in this position without
a minimal comment from me.I wish to assure global civil society that our
views are being shared, represented and recognised. I have made multiple
interventions on the calls as well as over emails and continue to work
across time zones to ensure that our views are reflected. Anriette, my
colleague from the MAG, has done a fairly balanced assessment of the
situation though, and I completely agree with her, we have real
challenges ahead of us. I think our time would be utilised better if we
focus on the issues at hand- in Netmundial, I see a significant
oppurtunity for change.
In the internet, I see not just a source of knowledge but also an
amplifier of dissent and an enabler of human rights and permissionless
innovation. I have been a free speech activist and have fought for these
issues long and hard and therefore this is deeply painful. My
interventions are available publicly and a basic name search would
reveal my interventions at the global IGF as well on national media in
India. Many of these national meetings have been with my friends and
respected colleagues from civil society in India and remain on their
websites or any outreach platforms of communication. At the last India
IGF MAG meeting where three of the co-signatories, who are also on the
MAG, made interventions with me. Their interventions and mine
capturedare in the official minutes. In the same meeting I was also
appointed as the convenor of the Working group of the India IGF with the
knowledge and consent of Mr.Parmindar from ITfC and with consensus from
the floor.
My work in the Internet Governance Space and related areas of media and
communication, deepening democracy and public policy can be found on my
blog *<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://subichaturvedi.blogspot.in/*">http://subichaturvedi.blogspot.in/*</a>
Now Iask all of you, who have been relentlessly subjected to the said
article and appeals by my respectable colleagues and collaborators from
Indian CS- was it appropriate toincludeme in this story related to
surveillance by a corporate? Is there any connection at all? Other than
to cause harm to me; in which they miserably failed.As identified in
Ian’s email, apart from being a vicious personal attack, the article is
ma</pre></blockquote></blockquote></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>____________________________________________________________</span><br><span>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span><br><span>To be removed from the list, visit:</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>For all other list information and functions, see:</span><br><span> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a></span><br><span>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>