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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.04.2014 10:59, schrieb parminder:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:534F97F6.80403@itforchange.net" type="cite">
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      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 17 April 2014 08:24 AM,
        Stephanie Perrin wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote
        cite="mid:554BE7A5-5E4D-4D19-A298-6E5A6ED64966@mail.utoronto.ca"
        type="cite">
        <div>I am indebted to my colleague Carlton Samuels for pointing
          out the recent (April 10) opinion of the article 29 working
          party.  Perhaps it would be useful to cite it. </div>
        <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/files/2014/wp215_en.pdf"
            target="_blank" class="link-ico"><span>Opinion 04/2014 on
              "Surveillance of electronic communications for
              intelligence and national security purposes</span><span
              class="link-size">(336 kB)</span></a> <a
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="ws-ico" href="" title="Choose
            translations of the previous link"><img
              moz-do-not-send="true" alt="Choose translations of the
              previous link"
              src="http://ec.europa.eu/wel/images/languages/ws.gif"
              width="16" height="13"></a>" - WP 215</div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <br>
      The EU Working party seeks: " An international agreement providing
      adequate protection against indiscriminate surveillance" and
      "development of a global instrument providing for enforceable,
      high level privacy and data protection principles as agreed upon
      by the International Conference of Data Protection and Privacy
      Commissioners in their Madrid Declaration"<br>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    Well not exactly, since the mass surveillance problem is not
    addressed in data protection. Laws like FISAA and other laws
    regulating secret services are not part of the data protection
    corpora. So it is the laws regulating national security, which are
    always explicitly excluded in data protection. <br>
    Why not introducing on the first place the notion of "legitimate
    aim" on surveillance as HRW & EFF are trying to do?
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/related_material/HRW%20submission%20on%20privacy%20US%20CCPR%20review%20final.pdf">http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/related_material/HRW%20submission%20on%20privacy%20US%20CCPR%20review%20final.pdf</a>)<br>
    And on the second place, why not being bold and trying to encourage
    the creation of minimal international standards on cyber-espionage?<br>
    Kind regards<br>
    Lorena<br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:534F97F6.80403@itforchange.net" type="cite">
      That is what we should be talking about, not the vacuous
      statements of the public NetMundial outcome draft, which in fact
      are not innocent because they seek a multistakeholder public
      policy decision making model which will simply make such kinds of
      agreements impossible...<br>
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      parminder <br>
      <br>
      <blockquote
        cite="mid:554BE7A5-5E4D-4D19-A298-6E5A6ED64966@mail.utoronto.ca"
        type="cite">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/index_en.htm#h2-1">http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/index_en.htm#h2-1</a>
        <div>Stephanie Perrin<br>
          <div>
            <div>On 2014-04-16, at 10:25 PM, Ian Peter wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <blockquote type="cite">
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                    <div>I don’t know Parminder (and I wasnt aware of
                      that). What I would like to see is sufficient
                      comments and some suggestions that might provoke a
                      discussion during the meeting rather than the
                      words quietly being accepted. I suggested
                      elsewhere perhaps we could call for an immediate
                      cessation of all surveillance that did not accord
                      with human rights provisions and privacy norms. I
                      would just like to see which governments put up
                      their hand to oppose an inclusion along those
                      lines.</div>
                    <div> </div>
                    <div>Ian Peter</div>
                    <div style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY:
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                        <div> </div>
                        <div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
                          <div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              title="parminder@itforchange.net"
                              href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder</a>
                          </div>
                          <div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 17, 2014
                            11:59 AM</div>
                          <div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              title="bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
                              href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>
                            ; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              title="governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
                              href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
                          </div>
                          <div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bestbits]
                            Surveillance paragraph of netmundial
                            document</div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div> </div>
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                      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 17 April
                        2014 04:08 AM, Ian Peter wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote
                        cite="mid:ABBB33C3166A4A4F93414DEA93F05027@Toshiba"
                        type="cite">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                            'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Hi
                              everyone,</div>
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"> </div>
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">To me one
                              of the weakest sections of the document is
                              the paragraph dealing with surveillance
                              issues (para 35 of the Roadmap) which
                              reads “<span style="FONT-FAMILY: ;
                                WHITE-SPACE: normal; TEXT-TRANSFORM:
                                none; WORD-SPACING: 0px; FLOAT: none;
                                COLOR: ; DISPLAY: inline !important;
                                LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT:
                                25px; TEXT-INDENT: 0px;
                                -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><font
                                  face="Arial"><font color="#ca0000"><span
                                      class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Internet

                                    surveillance – Mass and arbitrary
                                    surveillance undermines trust in the
                                    Internet and trust in the Internet
                                    governance ecosystem. Surveillance
                                    of communications, their
                                    interception, and the collection of
                                    personal data, including mass
                                    surveillance, interception and
                                    collection should be conducted in
                                    accordance with states’ obligations
                                    under international human rights
                                    law. More dialogue is needed on this
                                    topic at the international level
                                    using forums like IGF and the Human
                                    Rights Council aiming to develop a
                                    common understanding on all the
                                    related aspects”.</font></font></span></div>
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><span
                                style="FONT-FAMILY: ; WHITE-SPACE:
                                normal; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none;
                                WORD-SPACING: 0px; FLOAT: none; COLOR: ;
                                DISPLAY: inline !important;
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                                -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"></span> </div>
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">This
                              fairly weak language and action line (more
                              dialogue) is not surprising given the
                              governmental input (including US
                              Government) into the drafting. So far the
                              only comment on this is from me, where I
                              suggest  reference to the
                              necessaryandproportionate.org principles.
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      You of course know that reference to 'necessary
                      and proportionate' was there in the original draft
                      and it got removed... What are the chances then it
                      will be reinstated at your request?<br>
                      <br>
                      parminder<br>
                      <br>
                      <blockquote
                        cite="mid:ABBB33C3166A4A4F93414DEA93F05027@Toshiba"
                        type="cite">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:
                            'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"> </div>
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">I think
                              it would be useful if others commented as
                              individuals. Perhaps what we need is some
                              better wording (which perhaps governments
                              would be embarrassed not to include), and
                              which would strengthen the response here.
                              In any case, some wording and indication
                              of level of concern to ensure that this is
                              discussed on the floor of the meeting
                              rather than simply passed by as an
                              adequate wording would be useful!</div>
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"> </div>
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"> </div>
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Ian Peter</div>
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"> </div>
                            <div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">The site
                              for entering responses is <a
title="http://document.netmundial.br/2-roadmap-for-the-future-evolution-of-the-internet-governance/"
href="http://document.netmundial.br/2-roadmap-for-the-future-evolution-of-the-internet-governance/"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">http://document.netmundial.br/2-roadmap-for-the-future-evolution-of-the-internet-governance/</a></div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                      <div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                      </div>
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