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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Alex's response here is "spot on"<br>
<br>
Ken Stubbs<br>
<br>
On 3/23/2014 3:22 AM, Alejandro Pisanty wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOxRbV96+hXRaeetx0VVVdvFTNA1rsvXpFenbQYoZ3XfnhhONw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Parminder,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>this statement puts in a nutshell what never ceases to
amaze me: civil society has gained the most among all sectors
from the multistakeholder component of governance, be it
Internet, finance, or the environment. We from civil society
have broken silos and gained a global voice and unparallelled
global influence, often paired with influence inside our
countries.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yet the position you present reverts power to governments
only - e.g. through the demand of public funding and the
exclusion of private funding; the same governments most civil
society is at odds with (admittedly in very different ways and
levels.) </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I continue to find it incredibly paradoxal to have civil
society leading the effort to braid the rope with which
governments would gladly hang us.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Another perplexing element of this discourse is calling the
effective, open, evolvable, broadly participatory and open
multistakeholder processes undemocratic and the multilateral
and governmental "democratic", when maybe two thirds of the
world population do not consider their condition democratic. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The remedy to the thick suspicionism of yours and
colleagues - after stating lack of knowledge of the
organizations and matters beign spoken of - is not doing away
with the multistakeholder component in favor of the
governmental or multilateral, but optimizing the combined
contributions they can make. ICANN-as-a-laboratory provides a
lot of learning in this respect, wasted by not being studied
enough. And the whole framework is vital for the NTIA
functional substitution problem to hand, which these
discussions have long drifted away from.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 12:59 AM,
parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <font face="Verdana">This
is what IETF's own RFC 3869 says<br>
</font><br>
<pre>"The principal thesis of this document is that if commercial funding is the main source of funding for future Internet research, the future of the Internet infrastructure could be in trouble.
In addition to issues about which projects are funded, the funding source can also affect the content of the research, for example, towards or against the development of open standards, or taking
varying degrees of care about the effect of the developed protocols on the other traffic on the Internet."
</pre>
<font face="Verdana"><br>
It is important to recognise that research is not a
monopoly function, but governance definitionally is. So,
if commercial funding can distort Internet research, it
is but obviously that it has to be an absolute no no for
governance functions (standards making for something as
socially important today as the Internet, in absence of
any further neutral public oversight constitutes a
governance function). <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
</font>
<div>On Sunday 23 March 2014 07:04 AM, Stephen Farrell
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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Michael,
On 03/23/2014 01:23 AM, michael gurstein wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>I personally have no idea whether what you folks and your compadres
do/come up with is as pure as todays snowfall up on Grouse
Mountain--or not. But the absence of a recognition of what is
expected of you in terms of (at least formal) accountability and
transparency and what those expectations imply is, as I said to
John, I think a rather significant problem.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>Actually you said you didn't know how the IETF works.
And I said that the sponsorship stuff is public. And
all the mailing list traffic is public and open to all.
I really think you're in the arena of FUD in terms of
how your concern absolutely does not apply in the IETF
context.
But yet again - if you or someone is concerned go look
at the facts in the public record and then come back.
I am entirely sure that if something interesting were
found there the IETF would discuss it to death in the
same manner we do with almost everything. But I'm also
pretty confident that such an examination of the IETF
if done fairly would actually not show up such a problem.
So the situation is that you don't know how the IETF works.
And the IETF does (I claim, knowing something about it, but
anyone can verify) act transparently with accountability.
The problem it seems to me is with the first sentence in
this paragraph.
S.
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-- <br>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
Facultad de Química UNAM<br>
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