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    <font face="Arial">Good points Mawaki.  And good statement too.  I
      do think that in this paragraph you capture what many, if not most
      of us, understand by inclusive policy making/multi-stakeholder
      participation in policy making.<br>
      <br>
      I agree with your definition hereL<br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CACTo+v8dN6gKqoAuP_Y2wbbH5=eaPcxwg_oqcGGL6gU9Xn-q7A@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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        <div class="gmail_extra">
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>For me 'multistakeholderism" is just a fashionable way
              to call a form of inclusive policymaking process. I see
              stakeholders as part of the people. I don't think people
              need or should need some validation from political parties
              before they can directly participate in policymaking. This
              may even happen with traditional policymaking issues (the
              ones that can be easily confined to a national polity) if
              the elected officials are enlightened enough to constantly
              consult with the people and the affected groups in their
              decision making processes. But sticking to political
              parties or formal processes as the sole source of
              legitimate voice for policymaking becomes even more
              problematic on issues where we depend so much on each
              other across the world. So for me, while the concept and
              its implementation may not be mature, stable and robust
              enough to stand all relevant tests, "multistakeholderism"
              is just an attempt to get people (at least those who are
              aware among those affected by the policies) to participate
              in the policymaking in some orderly fashion (i.e. the
              organizing in stakeholders.) </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Now, I'm not naive. I know this is far from being
              perfect and the process can be captured and become an
              instrument for special interests with no much regard for
              public interest. That's where our focus should be, trying
              to make sure special interests do not use the mantle of
              stakeholders to drown out the voice and interests of the
              people. Granted, that's a tall order. But saying that
              political parties, elections, or other formal processes
              are the only way for legitimate representation, the only
              way to have a voice in the policymaking process is where
              we will have hard time finding an agreement. Maybe we
              shouldn't have called that "multistakeholder", maybe the
              boundaries of stakeholders are ill-conceived and they
              should be something else, and clearly the checks and
              balances for "multistakeholderism" leave much to be
              desired as of now and we still have a lot of work to do,
              but governments and political parties cannot be the only
              answer, can they?</div>
            <div> </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Agree. And the challenge to prevent special interests from
    manipulating policy processes remains. It is huge in traditional
    'government/legislature' lead policy processes and it is also huge
    in newer and experimental multi-stakeholder processes.<br>
    <br>
    The advantage of more the evolving more transparent
    multi-stakeholder processes is that it is harder for special
    interest groups to get what they want, because they have to be more
    public about it.<br>
    <br>
    Anriette<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CACTo+v8dN6gKqoAuP_Y2wbbH5=eaPcxwg_oqcGGL6gU9Xn-q7A@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_extra">
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
                While awaiting your formulation of the 'common
                understanding', </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>See my comments/responses above, and the current
              version of the statement.</div>
            <div> </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">I think that those
                pushing the 'equal role for all stakeholders' meme, want
                a business owner, or his rep, to be having a similar
                role as someone coming from a formal political process -
                called governments - in making actual decision making.
                THis is death of democracy.</div>
            </blockquote>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I hope not.</div>
            <div>Now please let's focus on the statement and finalize it
              (the broader discussion on MSism will certainly go on, but
              I personally wish to rest my case with this message.)</div>
            <div>Thanks,</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Mawaki </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class=""><font
                    color="#888888"><br>
                    <br>
                    parminder <br>
                  </font></span><br>
                PS: I have no issues with ICANN doing its limited
                technical and associated policy work in the manner that
                it does at present.
                <div class=""><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div class="gmail_extra">
                        <div class="gmail_quote">
                          <div>Do you mean that policymaking is the
                            exclusive role of the government or
                            intergovernmental bodies? If so, do you
                            think this may have been so in some period
                            in the history of human societies but that
                            may evolve? And if so, would you accept the
                            idea that such evolution may not necessarily
                            be clean cut but from start but fuzzy and
                            laborious and experimental at the beginning,
                            and that it may be experimented in just one
                            or a few sectors before extending to other
                            domains of governance?  </div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>I may agree that at this point in
                            history, governments ratify public policies,
                            they have the final say, the ultimate
                            authority to really enforce them to the
                            extent that those policies are really
                            public. But why public policies cannot be
                            developed by all stakeholders (if that's
                            your position)? And developing policies
                            isn't that part of policymaking?</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>If you do mean to suggest that
                            policymaking is the exclusive role of the
                            government or intergovernmental bodies in
                            this area of Ig, I'm afraid to say that from
                            my understanding of past discussions on this
                            list, that is unlikely to represent a
                            consensus view. Then shall we go back there
                            again?</div>
                          <div> </div>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
                            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><font
                                face="Verdana">This particular language
                                should therefore be struck out.<br>
                                <br>
                                Also, our communication , immediately
                                after welcoming the decision and
                                complimenting US gov for it, </font><font
                                face="Verdana">should</font><font
                                face="Verdana"> upfront say that we are
                                eager to know more details - especially
                                about (1) whether it means that ICANN
                                would no longer be under any contractual
                                obligations with the US gov, and be in
                                independent control of the root zone
                                server, and (2) what happens to the
                                issue of jurisdiction of incorporation
                                of ICANN and it being subject to US laws
                                and such and (3) whether any conditions
                                would be imposed in 'freeing ICANN' and
                                if so, of what nature.... </font></div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Well, it is my understanding that USG has
                            not by this decision opened negotiations
                            with IGC and other Internet stakeholders.
                            They were in a position and just announced
                            they are willing to relinquish. As could be
                            expected they want to have a say in or an
                            eye on what will follow (no transition to
                            intergovernmental arrangement plus the fours
                            principles as guidelines.) For the rest they
                            say ICANN has to develop a transition
                            proposal which should include the details of
                            what will follow. So I think apart from the
                            4 principles and the one litmus test they
                            spelled out in the announcement, all your
                            questions above can only be answered in the
                            transition proposal to be developed with our
                            participation and that of all other
                            stakeholders.  </div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Mawaki</div>
                          <div> <br>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
                            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <font
                                face="Verdana"> And that we look forward
                                to complete and real globalisation of
                                ICANN, in a manner that takes care of
                                these issues..<br>
                                <br>
                                Also, a minor point, about one but last
                                para, governance institutions do not
                                have customers, only constituencies and
                                the such... <br>
                                <br>
                                Thanks, parminder <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                              </font>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>On Sunday 16 March 2014 02:40 AM,
                                    Mawaki Chango wrote:<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                    <div dir="ltr"><br clear="all">
                                      <div>
                                        <div dir="ltr"><span
                                            style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
                                            <div><span
                                                style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span
                                                    style="border-collapse:collapse">
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div><span
                                                          style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span
                                                          style="border-collapse:collapse">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)">
                                                          Dear All,</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)">Please


                                                          find a draft
                                                          of the above
                                                          subject for
                                                          your
                                                          consideration
                                                          and possible
                                                          revisions.
                                                          This is just a
                                                          first crack
                                                          attempted
                                                          considering
                                                          the speed of
                                                          the events.
                                                          I'm cc'ing BB
                                                          as a peer
                                                          organization
                                                          with same
                                                          concerns.</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)">We


                                                          would
                                                          appreciate
                                                          your inputs by
                                                          Monday noon,
                                                          UTC.</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)">
                                                          ---</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)">IGC


                                                          Draft Press
                                                          Release</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)">
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)">
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">On

                                                          March 14, U.S.
                                                          Commerce
                                                          Department’s
                                                          National
                                                          Telecommunications
                                                          and
                                                          Information
                                                          Administration
                                                          (NTIA)
                                                          announced its
                                                          intent to
                                                          relinquish the
                                                          oversight role
                                                          it has played
                                                          so far with
                                                          the Internet
                                                          Corporation
                                                          for Assigned
                                                          Names and
                                                          Numbers
                                                          (ICANN)
                                                          regarding key
                                                          Internet
                                                          domain name
                                                          functions.  As
                                                          the
                                                          announcement
                                                          points out,
                                                          this marks the
                                                          final phase of
                                                          the transition
                                                          intended from
                                                          the inception
                                                          of ICANN
                                                          toward the
                                                          privatization
                                                          of the domain
                                                          name system
                                                          (DNS) and its
                                                          stewardship. </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">The

                                                          Internet
                                                          Governance
                                                          Caucus (IGC)
                                                          welcomes this
                                                          decision and
                                                          appreciates
                                                          the
                                                          opportunity to
                                                          further evolve
                                                          toward an
                                                          equitable
                                                          multistakeholder
                                                          policymaking
                                                          model for the
                                                          governance of
                                                          the Internet.
                                                          In that
                                                          regard, IGC
                                                          pays a
                                                          particular
                                                          attention to
                                                          the
                                                          reiteration by
                                                          NTIA of the
                                                          necessity to
                                                          involve all
                                                          stakeholders
                                                          in the process
                                                          as well as in
                                                          the desired
                                                          outcome for
                                                          fully
                                                          completing the
                                                          above
                                                          transition.
                                                          [If deemed
                                                          relevant by
                                                          members and
                                                          subject to
                                                          what the
                                                          following
                                                          actually
                                                          entails: “Meet
                                                          the needs and
                                                          expectation of
                                                          the global
                                                          customers and
                                                          partners of
                                                          the IANA
                                                          services”] We
                                                          also support
                                                          the four
                                                          principles put
                                                          forward by
                                                          NTIA to guide
                                                          ICANN and the
                                                          global
                                                          Internet
                                                          community in
                                                          the
                                                          formulation of
                                                          a proposal to
                                                          finalize this
                                                          transition.</p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">While


                                                          acknowledging
                                                          the primary
                                                          role of
                                                          Internet
                                                          organizations
                                                          and technical
                                                          standard-setting

                                                          bodies, IGC
                                                          wishes to call
                                                          attention to
                                                          the utmost
                                                          importance of
                                                          giving due
                                                          consideration
                                                          to the
                                                          concerns and
                                                          views of
                                                          non-technical
                                                          and
                                                          non-commercial
                                                          stakeholders
                                                          in Internet
                                                          policies.
                                                          Indeed IGC
                                                          supports the
                                                          multistakeholder
                                                          policymaking
                                                          model to the
                                                          extent that it
                                                          does not
                                                          contradict the
                                                          ideals of
                                                          democracy,
                                                          including due
                                                          consideration
                                                          to the rights
                                                          of minorities
                                                          (in the
                                                          context of
                                                          Internet
                                                          policy). It
                                                          will be a
                                                          constant
                                                          challenge to
                                                          make sure the
                                                          term
                                                          ‘multistakeholder’
                                                          is not reduced
                                                          to mean
                                                          ‘anti-all-governments-of-the-world’
                                                          but is rather
                                                          open to
                                                          embrace a
                                                          ‘pro-all-peoples-of-the-world’
                                                          meaning. </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">Furthermore,

                                                          a great deal
                                                          of care should
                                                          be given to
                                                          designing the
                                                          appropriate
                                                          accountability
                                                          mechanisms
                                                          that fits a
                                                          truly global
                                                          governance
                                                          institution –
                                                          with a
                                                          constituency
                                                          and a customer
                                                          base that
                                                          actually is
                                                          global.
                                                          Related to
                                                          that and more
                                                          broadly,
                                                          adequate
                                                          responses must
                                                          be found to
                                                          the concern
                                                          that while
                                                          achieving
                                                          effective
                                                          accountability
                                                          such
                                                          institution
                                                          (to emerge
                                                          from this
                                                          transition)
                                                          should not be
                                                          subject to any
                                                          one national
                                                          jurisdiction
                                                          at the
                                                          exclusion of
                                                          others. It
                                                          must be
                                                          equally
                                                          available and
                                                          accessible to
                                                          all Internet
                                                          stakeholders.
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">Since

                                                          ICANN is one
                                                          of the
                                                          co-conveners
                                                          of the
                                                          upcoming
                                                          NETMundial,
                                                          the Global
                                                          Meeting on the
                                                          Future of
                                                          Internet
                                                          Governance<span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> (</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.netmundial.br" target="_blank">www.netmundial.br</a>)
                                                          to be held in
                                                          Brazil this
                                                          April, we
                                                          advise that it
                                                          includes in
                                                          its
                                                          consultation
                                                          process for
                                                          the transition
                                                          proposal the
                                                          propositions
                                                          made in
                                                          submissions,
                                                          proceedings
                                                          and outcomes
                                                          of that
                                                          meeting as
                                                          regards the
                                                          phasing out of
                                                          the current
                                                          role played by
                                                          NTIA in the
                                                          coordination
                                                          of the
                                                          Internet’s
                                                          domain name
                                                          system. </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">The

                                                          Internet
                                                          Governance
                                                          Caucus</p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">March

                                                          xx, 2014.</p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </span></span></span></div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </span></span></span></div>
                                          </span></div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  <br>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
------------------------------------------------------
anriette esterhuysen <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</a>
executive director, association for progressive communications
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.apc.org">www.apc.org</a>
po box 29755, melville 2109
south africa
tel/fax +27 11 726 1692</pre>
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