<div dir="ltr">As it has been brought to my attention that my comments and question were not clear enough to some, here is another way of stating my concerns quoting from the original text (with a reiteration of my comments in square brackets and caps).<div>
<br></div><div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><quote><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">The DNSA would require a binding contract with ICANN regarding the conditions under which<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">it would agree to implement changes in the root zone or other associated databases to reflect policies<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">emerging from ICANN’s policy development processes [WHO WILL BE THE ENFORCER IN ODER TO MAKE SUCH CONTRACT BINDING?]. The contract should ensure that the DNSA<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">has no policy authority but merely implements valid requests for additions or deletions emerging from<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">ICANN’s policy process [NOTED!]. DNSA would promise to abide by ICANN policy directives on the<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">condition that ICANN’s policy decisions related to the root not be used to impose requirements on<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">registries, via registry agreements, to regulate content or otherwise locally lawful behavior of registrants.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">The existence of this contract would provide the opportunity for developing an additional accountability<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">check on ICANN [HOW SO? AGAIN WHO IS THE AUTHORITY THAT WOULD MAKE THIS SO-CALLED "ADDITIONAL ACCOUNTABILITY" EFFECTIVE?]. For example, if the contract was not in perpetuity but was renewable every five<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">years, diverse entities might compete to replace the existing ICANN as the policy development<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">authority [SO HERE IS THE CRUX: YOU SEEM TO BE SUGGESTING THAT ONE OF THOSE PARTIES, THE DNSA, IS IN A POSITION TO AWARD THIS CONTRACT TO THE OTHER, AND SO IT MIGHT AT SOME POINT WITHDRAW IT FROM THAT OTHER PARTY AND AWARD IT TO ANOTHER -- NOT UNLIKE THE POSITION THE USG WAS IN WITH ICANN. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE TENSION? AT THE VERY LEAST THERE IS A GAP IN YOUR EXPLAINING REGARDING THE FULL MECHANISMS OF THIS CONTRACTING, BUT YOU CAN'T JUST SAY DNSA HAS NO POLICY AUTHORITY WHILE IMPLYING IT MIGHT TAKE THE CONTRACT AWAY FROM ICANN (SINCE YOU HAVEN'T EXPLAINED WHERE ELSE THE AUTHORITY FOR DOING THAT WOULD LIE IN THAT RELATIONSHIP OR GOVERNANCE STRUCTURE.] As for the DNSA, as a private association of incumbent registries, any attempt by it to<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">manipulate root zone management to thwart competition or discriminate against eligible members would<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">be easily challenged by competition law authorities in Europe, the U.S., or elsewhere<u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"></quote></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<br></p></div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
Mawaki</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:09 AM, Mawaki Chango <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kichango@gmail.com" target="_blank">kichango@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Milton,</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
[Note: Sorry for duplication. I thought your original post was sent to both the IGC list and the 1net list and wanted also to reply to both lists but it was apparently sent only to the latter list. So for IGC I am posting my comments and questions in this thread as we are here considering your proposal as a potential reference in possible IGC statement for the NETmundial. Your quick response to the following as well as to the previous question (both of which are connected at some point) would be appreciated. Again, sorry for any confusion.] </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Thank you and Brenden for putting together this innovative attempt to solving the challenges of the evolving institutional field for Internet governance, and for sharing it. I have two points about your proposal.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">First, it is not clear to me how combining the IANA functions (which your proposal define as clerical) with the Root Zone Maintainer functions (which I would think are technical, with no more decision making power than the IANA functions) in a new entity provides that entity with the authority you seem to be giving it.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Indeed, it sounds like you’re proposing to end the _political_ oversight from USG by replacing it with the industry (DNSA) oversight. You say the existence of a contract between ICANN and the DNSA provides check and balance to ICANN and that other entities may even compete to replace ICANN if that contract were to (as it could) be made renewable every 5 years for instance, etc. In other words, this contract doesn’t seem like a contract between peer organizations with each just having specific different roles toward the other, but a contract between a principal and an agent, or in any case between an entity that has (a higher) authority over the other since the former can put an end to the raison d’etre of the latter and give it away to a competitor.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">While I understand the incentive-based rationale for the membership of the DNSA, I fail to see where you make the case for such larger authority as you attribute to it, again merely by combining the IANA functions with the Root Zone Maintainer functions. What is the source of the DNSA authority which makes it competent to exercise an oversight that matches the previous political oversight (since removing the term “political” from "oversight" doesn’t seem to narrow it to only the clerical and technical roles DNSA is supposed to carry out in the new governance structure) and competent to decide to grant or not to grant ICANN its contract?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I think clarifying this will also help resolve the question as to whether political considerations (in the larger sense of political) need to be brought to bear in deciding who should be part of the DNSA – which can be a decisive factor for the success or failure of this proposal.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">My second point is much shorter and concerns your reference to a treaty, at last twice. I don’t seem to find anywhere in the text an explanation about what the purpose of a treaty would be within the framework of this proposal. Would you mind elaborate on that?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Thanks,</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Mawaki</p><div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><div>
<span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:collapse"><div>
<div><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:collapse"><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)">
<br></div></span></span></span></div></div></span></span></span></div></span></div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 12:28 AM, Norbert Klein <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nhklein@gmx.net" target="_blank">nhklein@gmx.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
+1<br>
<br>
..."democratic and equitable representation across world regions"...<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Norbert Klein<br>
in Cambodia</font></span><div><div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 3/5/2014 2:10 AM, Mawaki Chango
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Milton,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How would you address the challenge of democratic (assuming
you agree that this is or may be applicable here) and
equitable representation across world regions within the
framework or under the fundamental principle of the solution
you and Brenden are proposing in that paper? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From my experience, there is no denying that minorities are
or feel even more isolated in a setting when the elements that
define the delineation between (a large) majority and (a
small) minority prominently albeit silently or de facto
include culture. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mawaki</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
<div><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:collapse">
<div>
<div><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><span style="border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(80,0,80)">
<br>
</div>
</span></span></span></div>
</div>
</span></span></span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 5:49 AM,
parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
<font face="Verdana">On the other hand, my organisations
and 45 others </font>had suggested a Technical
Oversight Board which will consist of 2-3 persons from
each geo- political region, these people being from key
technical academic institutions, and a method selection/
election from among possible candidates from each region
could be devised... Plus, one member from each region
could come from the respective RIR...<br>
<br>
This is a much more democratic spread then getting root
operators as ICANN's overseers (an overwhelming number
from the US, and all from developed countries) , or even
TLD operators, who are mostly from the US, apart from
the root operator/ TLD owners proposal suffering from
the problem of those regulated overseeing the
regulators....<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
parminder</font></span>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On Tuesday 04 March 2014 06:06 AM, <a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre> I do think it's worth having a bullet on the IANA issue
--internalization/
internationalization/ globalization-- as part of an IGC submission.
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Milton L Mueller <a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank"><mueller@syr.edu></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>There are two proposals on the table: Ian's, which would strengthen
ICANN
by simply giving it control of IANA, and the IGP proposal, which takes
IANA
out of ICANN and makes it an independent entity controlled by all the
world's TLD registries and root server operators.
At the very least, a statement from IGC could reference both proposals
as
something worth considering.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>This sounds to me like a good compromise under the current time
constraints.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>I am unable to agree to a model where those who are supposed to be
regulated supervise the regulators.... .(next, telcos supervise FCC and
such telecom regulators!?) I would even call it weird.
parminder
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Preferably, however, we should have a substantive discussion about the
merits of either approach.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>Do you mean by the March 8th deadline? Otherwise we may certainly have
this
discussion not only for a possible oral contribution during Sao Paulo
proceedings but also for potential input in further processes beyond Sao
Paulo (I'm sure the NETMundial will net be the end of all this search for
the future of Ig.)
Mawaki
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
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