<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 06 March 2014 03:24 AM,
Nigel Hickson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CF3D32DF.66769%25nigel.hickson@icann.org"
type="cite">
<div>Parminder </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good evening; when you say the "global community" in the UN;
are you thinking beyond governments; it is just I recall that
when in the UNGA I only recalled governments…..</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Good evening, Nigel.<br>
<br>
With global community, I mean the people of the world... (similar to
the evocation also made in most of our national constitutions and
also in the <a
href="https://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/preamble.shtml">UN
Charter</a> - 'We, the people..' kind of stuff'. <br>
<br>
Which of course immediately brings us to the issue of practicality
of processes to develop public policies, since no room can
accommodate 8 billion people neither have any means been perfected
to have 8 billion people communicate at the same time and be able to
reach a mutual determination of public interest..<br>
<br>
So, in fact we are dealing with the issue of the <i>next best
option</i>, which the democratic thought took to be some kind of
representation, so that a given practical number of people can do
this work on behalf of the 8 billion.. while keeping some kind of
close touch with the 8 billion and ensuring that it is them that
they represent at all times, and so on...<br>
<br>
Whereby, the question is, what is the best way to have
representativity, and what is the best way to keep a continuous
touch or contact that I speak of above.. <br>
<br>
It was thought that democratic elections are best to develop
representativity, but it was also thought that further democratic
process outside and between elections remain necessary - to keep in
touch, which generally go in the name of participatory democracy...
<br>
<br>
Now, no election is fully ok - the Chinese is much less ok that US
and Indian, and so on... And that is the struggle for democracy.
Even in India or the US, many think that although there are largely
free and fair elections, democracy is just not working, and the
available political parties do not give real political options to
the people..... and to correct this is also the process of reform of
democracy... And so much is happening all over the world right
now...<br>
<br>
But, I could not figure out, in this whole struggle, what is
multistakeholderism, beyond what we know as participatory democracy,
and why do business need to get political seats on par with (however
imperfectly) elected representatives plus their interactions with
people's groups or what is called as civil society... That is the
point someone needs to explain.... <br>
<br>
Well, on the UNGA point, yes there are only govs inside the UNGA,
but you were at the WGEC (CSTD working group on enhanced
cooperation), where more than half the room was non gov, talking at
the same footing as govs, and you know that a report of WGEC is
given complete and undivided attention by the UNGA, most often
simply rubber stamped by it. Right... That is participatory
democracy working - though I really do not agree with
representatives of Dinsneyland and AT&T and BT being among the
very few precious non gov seats in such setting. That is completely
not done in participatory democracy, but that is MSism. We needed to
have representative of the diabled people, indigenous groups,
feminists, health activists, and so on, none f them were there...
This is MSism. <br>
<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:CF3D32DF.66769%25nigel.hickson@icann.org"
type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nigel </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt;
text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT:
0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;
BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span
style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> parminder <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span> parminder
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Wednesday, March
5, 2014 12:21 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> "<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>>,
"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re:
[bestbits] Three NETmundial submissions launched for
endorsement at bestbits.net<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
Hi Jeremy<br>
<br>
For quite some time now, my analysis/prediction about the
efforts of ICANN plus (and whoever backs them) vis vis the
NetMundial has been as follows;<br>
<br>
1. the main aim was to stop Brazil from the path Its
President's speech at the UN looked to be paving - that of
engaging the global community in UN spaces for the needed
global Internet governance mechanisms.... That aim has been
achieved, at least for the time being...<br>
<br>
2. To make an alluring offer to Brazil to get them off the
track mentioned above, which was in terms of some vague
promises about some real steps forward in terms of
internationalisation of ICANN... However as NetMundial
approaches, we hear less and less of anything concrete in
this regard. Anyway, since the show was being arranged, it
was found useful if some good text could be got into the
NetMundial outcome docs on<i><b> 'multistakeholder decision
making' including, and specifically, on global public
policy issues</b></i>. This latter is the primary
objective at this point. And the mentioned parties have been
going about in a completely unabashed manner - helped
considerably by some unexplained high degree of bashfulness
of the involved civil society. We saw 1 Net being formed
from nowhere (sorry, now we know, from an ICANN board
decision), it taking over the meeting's co-ownership,
various shenanigans around selection of its steering
committee (which in any case is constantly bypassed, and
never seems to converse with the respective constituencies),
imposition of a person with highly questionable standing and
reputation as civil society leader of the meeting (about
which Ian again recommends further bashful for civil
society) , and now a sudden survey which will formulate the
1Net aka 'global internet community' view on Internet
principles for submission to the netMundial..... and so
on.... Believe me, you havent seen nothing yet. Wait for the
days close to the meeting....<br>
<br>
And of course, the proposed view to be submitted on 1Net's
behalf has this all important principle, "<span
style="font-variant: normal"><font color="#000000"><span
style="text-decoration: none"><font face="Verdana,
sans-serif"><font size="4"><span style="font-style:
normal"><span style="font-weight: normal">
Decisions made with respect to Internet
governance should onl</span></span></font></font></span></font></span>y
be made by bodies that allow free and equitable access to
all stakeholders at all points in the decision-making
process." Well of course. Two hoots to democracy!<br>
<br>
Now I shall come to the point, of my comments on the
proposed submission to NetMundial submitted by Jeremy.<br>
<br>
I of course support and commend both APC Principles and IRP
Principles - which seem the main burden of the
submission.... BUT...<br>
<i><b><br>
</b></i><i><b>Can someone explain me the meaning of
"equitable multistakeholder participation"</b></i> and
whether it is different from what is meant in the above
statement from 1Net's survey. If so, how.... More precisely,
are you seeking that all stakeholders, including business
reps, have equal part and role (as gov reps) in making
decisions about public policies. Please address this point
specifically. <br>
<br>
I hope those proposing this statement will explain this
point. I think it is their responsibility to do so, instead
of slipping in such concepts, what would in default be,
somewhat surreptitiously, which many potential signees are
apt to miss..<br>
<br>
Thanks <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<title></title>
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="LibreOffice 3.5 (Linux)">
<style type="text/css">
<!--
@page { margin: 2cm }
P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; direction: ltr; color: #000000; widows: 0; orphans: 0 }
P.western { font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt; so-language: en-IN }
P.cjk { font-family: "Droid Sans"; font-size: 12pt; so-language: zh-CN }
P.ctl { font-family: "Lohit Hindi"; font-size: 12pt; so-language: hi-IN }
-->
</style><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 05 March 2014
01:30 AM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:FF17425A-CEDC-4439-9521-8BD41F7D4E59@Malcolm.id.au"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div>Dear all,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With thanks to everyone for their hard work on the
drafts, we are now simultaneously launching three
submissions for the NETmundial meeting. These
submissions are the end results of extensive discussions
on the Best Bits lists going back to last year, with a
final face-to-face review this week (particularly on the
roadmap for further evolution of the institutional
submission) by those of you who are present at RightsCon
in San Francisco.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The three complementary submissions, all of which are
open for endorsement separately, are:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<ol class="MailOutline">
<li>Internet governance principles, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://bestbits.net/netmundial-principles/">http://bestbits.net/netmundial-principles/</a></li>
<li>Roadmap for the Further Evolution of the Internet
Governance Ecosystem – institutional mechanisms, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://bestbits.net/netmundial-roadmap/">http://bestbits.net/netmundial-roadmap/</a></li>
<li>Roadmap for the Further Evolution of the Internet
Governance Ecosystem – ICANN, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://bestbits.net/netmundial-icann/">http://bestbits.net/netmundial-icann/</a></li>
</ol>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>These will be formally submitted to NETmundial on 8
March 2014, but between now and then we are gathering as
many endorsements for each of the statements as we can.
So please I would encourage everyone to read the
statements, to endorse each of them separately (if you
agree with them, of course), and then to spread the word
through social media, email or word of mouth.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks again to everyone involved, and we really hope
to see your endorsement on each of the submissions soon.</div>
<br>
<div apple-content-edited="true">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate;
border-spacing: 0px;">
<div style="font-size: 12px; text-align:
-webkit-auto; word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate;
border-spacing: 0px;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;">
<div>--</div>
<div>Jeremy Malcolm PhD LLB (Hons) B
Com</div>
<div>Internet lawyer, ICT policy
advocate, geek</div>
<div>host -t NAPTR
5.9.8.5.2.8.2.2.1.0.6.<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://e164.org">e164.org</a>|awk
-F! '{print $3}'</div>
</div>
</span><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
WARNING: This email has not been encrypted.
You are strongly recommended to enable
encryption at your end. For instructions,
see <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://jere.my/l/pgp">http://jere.my/l/pgp</a>.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>