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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tks Deidre,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But in this instance it is the “who” i.e. the Community Informatics Network and its arbitrary and self-serving exclusion from the various representational formations (e.g. the CS: CC); and then the illegitimate usurping of the mantle of “CS” by the CS: CC on behalf of its self-selected and self-appointed members (and the similar process of the “academic” mantle by Giganet); followed by the tacit or active acceptance of this illegitimate process (including through the apparent acceptance of the exclusivity of nominations) by outside agencies such as Inet with or without their awareness of (complicity in) this illegitimacy; that leads directly to the denial of the opportunity to give a voice to these end users (and non-users) including excluding those who through their research and project work endeavor to engage and empower these end users (and non-users) – the “what”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Deirdre Williams [mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 13, 2014 1:05 AM<br><b>To:</b> michael gurstein<br><b>Cc:</b> Internet Governance; William Drake<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] [bestbits] emails to Adiel<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>I agree with you. I consider that the end users in particular (who in the final analysis provide most if not all of the funding) are shamefully ignored. But in that case we should surely be discussing how - process - instead of who - personalities. Ian tried to initiate something like this.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>And for this meeting the process discussion would seem to have no direct relevance since it would appear that the final selection will be made by the conveners of the meeting - who are not us..<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 12 January 2014 11:32, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Deidre and all,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The “who” in terms of these committees matters a very great deal in determining the “what” of the expressions that are allowed to appear because the “who” on these committees provide the framing of the questions which will be discussed and thus the determination of those points of view which are “acceptable” and those which fall outside of those norms.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The Community Informatics community in large part arose precisely because the “who” of participation at the WSIS consisted almost exclusively of people talking about other people’s work and almost no one actually speaking of their own work or of work with which they had a close association and direct sympathy. As I’ve noted several times in the past actual grass roots users or grass roots practitioners particularly those working with the marginalized were not present and most certainly not well “re”presented by those who did participate in WSIS. Grassroots users/practitioners have had to live with the consequences ever since.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Deirdre Williams<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> Internet Governance; William Drake</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] [bestbits] emails to Adiel<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"BTW it’s worth bearing in mind that all we’re talking about here is who is on these two conference committees, a matter of </span><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>infinitesimally less importance than formulating substantive inputs on the meeting agenda items.</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> "</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The brouhaha over who is selected and how seems to me to be a wonderful example of the magical results of smoke and mirrors, and earns my (grudging) respect for the very clever strategy that started it all.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Speaking for myself, as one who will be represented, at the moment I see very little chance of being represented at all. If you wish to represent me then you must take some trouble to establish what my position is on the various issues that may be discussed. The priority should be for the what, the issues and positions, rather than for the who.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I suspect/hope that Bill's "infinitesimally" has wriggled its way somehow out of context.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Of course if no representation is intended then the who becomes supremely important, since I must hope that my point of view will find its way to the meeting through the serendipity of "shared values".<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>In connection with this I should like to second Ginger's proposal for facilitation of really effective remote PARTICIPATION for the Brazil meeting, and for as much of the preparatory process as is practical.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 12 January 2014 06:31, William Drake <<a href="mailto:wjdrake@gmail.com" target="_blank">wjdrake@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi Norbert<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Jan 11, 2014, at 2:10 PM, Norbert Bollow <<a href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch" target="_blank">nb@bollow.ch</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>William Drake <<a href="mailto:wjdrake@gmail.com" target="_blank">wjdrake@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Jan 10, 2014, at 5:57 PM, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>><br>wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Friday 10 January 2014 09:51 PM, Anja Kovacs wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>However, before the message that the meeting would now be an<br>LOC-only one came, Adiel did nevertheless respond to that request.<br>As we (ie the 4 networks that appointed the liaisons) have<br>insisted on dealing directly with the LOC,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>Yes, we did.. So wrong to approach 1Net coordinator to facilitate<br>our participation when we expressly decided against it..<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>For the third time in two days on three lists I find myself in<br>agreement with Parminder, which may be a cause for concern to us<br>both :-)<br><br>Could someone please remind me which are the 4 networks that insist<br>on dealing directly with the LOC<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>The November 25, 2013 letter on this topic, which is available online<br>at <a href="http://bestbits.net/brazil-reps/" target="_blank">http://bestbits.net/brazil-reps/</a> is signed as follows:<br><br>Best Bits Interim Steering Committee (<a href="mailto:steering@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">steering@lists.bestbits.net</a>)<br>IRP Coalition (<a href="mailto:info@irpcharter.org" target="_blank">info@irpcharter.org</a>)<br>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro and Norbert Bollow, coordinators of the<br>Internet Governance Caucus (<a href="mailto:coordinators@igcaucus.org" target="_blank">coordinators@igcaucus.org</a>)<br>Association for Progressive Communications – APC (<a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>In case anyone cares about what the formal status of this matter might<br>be in relation to IGC: Strictly speaking IGC is not among the<br>signatories of this letter, and it is not a statement of IGC, as IGC<br>has not formally endorsed it. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thank you for clarifying this.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The two people who were at the time the<br>co-coordinators of IGC have signed it, and the contents of the letter<br>certainly reflect what was in Bali the consensus of the people who met<br>in person in civil society meetings to discuss these matters,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Per previous, I and others disagree with this characterization. Not wanting to be party to more shouting is not the same as agreeing, or expecting that what the people who happened to be in that room said permanently committed the networks of which they’re members to a position that could not be reviewed and agreed by others later. As you yourself say, IGC did not formally endorse the position, and yet it has been routinely asserted since that this is IGC’s position.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Parminder rightly asked for confirmation one way or the other of the positions of IGC and BB and there’s been little response. Maybe people don’t want to be party to more heated exchanges that won’t lead to rough consensus, maybe they don’t care enough either way, whatever. While this floats unresolved, the LOG’s deadlines for the provision of names get closer. And as Hartmut said yesterday on 1Net, the LOG wants <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Jan 11, 2014, at 6:02 PM, Hartmut Richard Glaser <<a href="mailto:glaser@cgi.br" target="_blank">glaser@cgi.br</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So for the HLC, business, technical, CS and academia should each submit 3 names via the 1net SC no later than two weeks from now. <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Correct ...</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So for the EMC, business, technical, CS and academia should each submit 2 names via the 1net SC no later than next Friday.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Correct ...</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>If in fact any of the 4 networks still do not want to submit names through the 1Net SC, while other networks are doing just that, then they are putting the Brazilian LOG in the position of deciding which nominations to accept from whom via which channels. The LOG clearly does not want to be in that position, which is why they asked people to sort this out and submit through the 1Net SC (LOG didn’t say this because of dark forces compelling them). At some point, someone has to decide who’s on the 2 committees. Either it’s the LOG, which doesn't want it and on which the networks don’t have representation, or it’s the 1Net SC, on which most of them do. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>And if it’s</span><span style='font-size:18.0pt'> </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>the 1Net SC, there’s the further problem of does it just pass on names from those networks, in which case other nets feel may say they’ve been excluded, or does it have to select among competing nets' nominations, in which case it’ll be accused of abusing authority nobody granted it (see threads on BB and 1Net). The 1Net SC should not be put in this position, either.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>We’ve done many cycles on many lists and the clock’s ticking down. Either we sort this out of we’ll have an overdetermined train wreck. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>BTW it’s worth bearing in mind that all we’re talking about here is who is on these two conference committees, a matter of </span>infinitesimally less importance than formulating substantive inputs on the meeting agenda items.<span style='font-size:13.5pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" target="_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- <br>“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979 <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <br>“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979 <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>