<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi<div><br></div><div>Thanks Parminder, glad we are able to agree on this.<div><br></div><div>But further to the question of being clear about who’s speaking, I guess I also don’t understand why you’re only asking for the views of the leaderships of these networks? Undoubtedly there are varying views among their memberships about whether CS should present its nominations to the conference committees in the same way as other stakeholders, as the LOG has asked us to do for simplicity’s sake. Surely you’re not suggesting that the leaders should just take whatever stances they want because their memberships have varying views (well, Best Bits doesn’t actually have members to represent, but whatever). While I’m not trying to initiate another long and needlessly divisive thread about representational modalities, I don’t think continuing down this road will be helpful to anyone. </div><div><br></div><div>FWIW my view remains that if the networks involved refuse to work through the 1net mechanism to channel nominations to the Brazilians, they should not have taken positions on the 1net coordination committee, which to date has one identifiable function— channeling nominations to the Brazilians. If the view is that because its launch and initial expiation were not handled well 1net therefore has no legitimacy as a channel, then the networks shouldn’t lend it legitimacy and should resign from its coordination committee. I don’t share that view of 1net, but if someone else does they should behave according to their principles rather than trying to have it both ways. </div><div><br></div><div>Best</div><div><br></div><div>Bill</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><br><div><div>On Dec 27, 2013, at 3:41 PM, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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Ok, Bill, There was a category confusion here. Since we were/
are interacting within the IGC and BB space I meant simply 'our CS
groups' here had made that decision. I agree that it is factually
incorrect to say that it is a civil society decision. Should only
say it is IGC plus BB plus APC plus IRP decision. I stand
corrected.<br>
<br>
(Since I was writing to Carlos I was also mindful that Carlos
knew </font><font face="Verdana">exactly </font><font face="Verdana">which groups put forward this position and will
communicate accordingly...)<br>
<br>
In any case, I request the leaderships of IGC, BB, APC and IRP
colaition to let us know what there current position is on this
issue, and what do they propose to do since it seems that things
are going in the direction that they did not want them to go..<br>
<br>
parminder<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 27 December 2013 04:35 PM,
William Drake wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:3CE0D58A-801F-4AEC-99B5-7AE33B3B3223@gmail.com" type="cite">
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<br>
<div>
<div>On Dec 27, 2013, at 11:34 AM, parminder <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 27 December 2013
02:53 PM, William Drake wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:855190B1-7012-4530-9147-D9D9418BB942@gmail.com" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
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Hi
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Small corrections please</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Dec 27, 2013, at 9:48 AM, parminder <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <font face="Verdana">Dear Carlos<br>
<br>
I understand that the local organising group
will meet in a few hours from now...<br>
<br>
I will request you to let them know that civil
society groups </font></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Should read “some civil society groups”. Probably
necessary to give their names so the message is
understood properly.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I understand that it is a decision of 4 CS organisations/
networks - IGC, BB, IRP and APC - which was sent in a
written form to the Brazilians and I am only reiterating
that decision... I understand that decision stand unless a
counter decision is taken..<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Well…As Nnenna and other have documented, IGC and BB are in fact
the same people, and as BB is a voting platform with formal
members it’s not clear how legitimately this position was
adopted without a vote. IRP I thought was a multistakeholder
coalition, is it not? I don’t recall what APC’s position was,
would be good to have reconfirmation. Either way, not endorsing
that approach is NCSG (almost 400 organization and individual
members), Diplo (quite a lot), or various other CS networks and
organizations engaged in IG. So you really are not in a
position to issue grandiose totalizing proclamations on behalf
of all global civil society. And FWIW, as both a founding IGC
member and a BB attendee, I certainly I don’t recall an open and
inclusive discussion in either setting about whether to stand
aloof of the process the Brazilians are asking us to use (which
I can’t believe we’re still debating). What I do remember is a
few loud and aggressive voices demanding that this be the stance
and nobody wanting to tangle. I also remember the very same
people who denounced using 1net as the agreed aggregator of
nominations and anything else then demanding to be appointed to
its coordination committee, which is a pretty blatant bit of
have your cake and eat it too incoherence.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anyway, it’s of course totally fine if there are groups that
feel that on principle you will not interface with the Brazilian
process in the manner the Brazilians have asked for. Then
simply say who you are, and don’t pretend to speak for other
parts of CS that don’t agree with you. </div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
However, if you and or others want that decision to be
reversed, please indicate so, and we can gather opinions. </div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
I’m not asking you to change your view, I know you won’t. I’m
asking you to please report accurately who supports your
statement so that others of us don’t have to waste time issuing
a public corrective. Such a process is not going to add luster
to CS participation. </div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">Otherwise please do not
confuse people about what is an existing decision of key
civil society groups…</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
I’m not confusing people, you are. You are claiming, yet again,
to be speaking for “civil society,” when you are not. It is a
pretty major misrepresentation.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>BD<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:855190B1-7012-4530-9147-D9D9418BB942@gmail.com" type="cite">
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><font face="Verdana">stand by their decision to
communicate their nominees for various
organising committees directly to the local
organising group (LOG) ... All other kinds of
communication from the civil society </font><span style="font-family: Verdana;">side</span><span style="font-family: Verdana;"> </span></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
from these members of the civil society ‘side’</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><font face="Verdana">will also continue to be done
from civil society side directly to the LOG, and
later, as appropriate to the relevant organising
committees. We </font></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
These civil society groups</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>These amendments add some precision and avoid some
of the unnecessary confusion that’s arisen.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bill</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><font face="Verdana">do not intend to mediate any such
communication through 1Net or any such other
group. <br>
<br>
I will add as a personal opinion that: Brazil/
CGI.Br has taken the political role of
organising this important meeting; it cannot now
shirk from the corresponding political
responsibilities, by passing them on to others
who have not been given the needed legitimacy.
The world sees and approves Brazil as the host
and organiser of this meeting, and it will be
best if they are able to continue to do so. Any
change of perception would have important
bearing on the legitimacy and success of the
meeting. <br>
<br>
I would also like to request LOG to give civil
society Liaisons - the names being already
communicated to them - equal status and
involvement in your meetings and decisions as,
apparently, is being given to some other non
governmental groups. <br>
<br>
In this regard I also request the Liaisons to be
in contact with the LOG, and also with us. <br>
<br>
Thanks and best regards<br>
<br>
Parminder<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font><br>
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William J. Drake<br>
International Fellow & Lecturer<br>
Media Change & Innovation Division,
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University of Zurich, Switzerland<br>
Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, <br>
ICANN, <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ncuc.org/">www.ncuc.org</a><br>
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*******************************************************************<br>
William J. Drake<br>
International Fellow & Lecturer<br>
Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ<br>
University of Zurich, Switzerland<br>
Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, <br>
ICANN, <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ncuc.org/">www.ncuc.org</a><br>
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