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As already mentioned, because of questionable practices by IANA in
ICANN's "grey period" the policy defined in RFC1591 and further
"clarified" by the GAC Principles is being curently interpreted by a
broadly constituted working group under the authority of the ccNSO.
The group is far from finished with this task, but a lot of findings
could be found at: <br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ccnso.icann.org/workinggroups/foiwg.htm">http://ccnso.icann.org/workinggroups/foiwg.htm</a><br>
<br>
The topic who the community is and how significant the Government's
role in that community is a difficult one to solve --- considering
especially, that most governments do not even recognize their is
community besides their own party/leader/other interests. As with
everything else in Internet, this too requires cooperation and
broader inclusion -- especially as it turns out Governments have
absolutely no control over the network, other than what the
community has let them have.<br>
<br>
In essence, your observations are correct. <br>
<br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13.12.13 12:58, Joanna Kulesza
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOyPM8-EftOOPRfO3a5zp0PTUG33J1Yd-6pWNL2WZ7gqDfKZZQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
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<div>Thanks for this example Kerry. <br>
<br>
I think it all boils down to the language of the RFC 1591
where in pt. 4 it states that "4) Significantly interested
parties in the domain should agree that the designated
manager is the appropriate party." Who decides on the scope
and legitimacy of the "significantly interested parties in
the domain"? IANA? Is it also IANA who asseses that there is
"agreement"? Or is it "the community"? Meaning who? <br>
<br>
</div>
I believe there is no doubt that states hold no particular
role in assigning the ccTLD manager, even though ccTLDs are
perceived by some as manifestations of nationality. States are
to be considered one of the "significantly interested parties"
and seek consensus. With IANA/ICANN being the judge of the
consensus in place. Just for the record - I am not saying it's
a bad thing, just seeking confirmation on the facts as I see
them. Will appreciate any comments or corrections. <br>
<br>
</div>
Thanks,<br>
Joanna <br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/12/13 Kerry Brown <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kerry@kdbsystems.com"
target="_blank">kerry@kdbsystems.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="font-size:14px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;word-wrap:break-word">
<div>As a current director of CIRA who are delegated to
run .ca as designated by the Canadian government I too
find the discussion fascinating. I was not on CIRA’s
board when the relegation from UBC to CIRA took place.
John Demco who had the original delegation at UBC is on
our board and I’ve had many discussions with him about
the process. Here is a link that outlines the process
IRA went through.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.iana.org/reports/2000/ca-report-01dec00.html"
target="_blank">http://www.iana.org/reports/2000/ca-report-01dec00.html</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My understanding of the process for delegation into
the IANA/ICANN root is that the government of the
country can request the delegation be changed to another
party. It is then up to IANA to determine the validity
of the request and providing it is valid the ccTLD will
be delegated to the entity specified by the government.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kerry Brown</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style="border-right:medium
none;padding-right:0in;padding-left:0in;padding-top:3pt;text-align:left;font-size:11pt;border-bottom:medium
none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:#b5c4df 1pt
solid;padding-bottom:0in;border-left:medium none">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Joanna
Kulesza <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:joannakulesza@gmail.com"
target="_blank">joannakulesza@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>>,
Joanna Kulesza <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:joannakulesza@gmail.com"
target="_blank">joannakulesza@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday,
December 12, 2013 at 3:25 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re:
[governance] UN controls the country code part of the
Internet root, not US<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0
0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi everyone,<br>
<br>
</div>
as much as this is my very first post on
the list, the discussion is so riveting, I
had to chip in, with a question rather
than an opinion really.
<br>
<br>
Would the ICANN "power" you were
discussing not also be visible in the
delegation/redelegation policy? Not
"taking the country offline" but
redelegating the management of the ccTLD
to an entitiy more... willing to
colaborate with ICANN/US? The case that
always come to my mind when we speak about
ICANN "power" over the online reflections
of state sovereignty, that is the ccTLDs,
is the 2004 Haiti case:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/14/haiti_kisses_icann_ring_rewarded/"
target="_blank">
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/14/haiti_kisses_icann_ring_rewarded/</a>
or
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.icannwatch.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/26/0138212.Just"
target="_blank">http://www.icannwatch.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/26/0138212.Just</a>
for the sake of objectivity, here's the
IANA take on the case:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.iana.org/reports/2004/ht-report-13jan04.html"
target="_blank">http://www.iana.org/reports/2004/ht-report-13jan04.html</a><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
My question to the members of the list, should
they choose to answer it, is simple - was this
a stricly technical decision or would you
consider it a politically influenced one? Does
the Haiti case stand out? Are there any other
examples of redelegation decision viewed as
controversial, like this one? Is this a state
sovereignty issue? Or not at all?
<br>
<br>
</div>
Thank you, <br>
Joanna Kulesza <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/12/12 George
Sadowsky <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com"
target="_blank">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
All,<br>
<br>
Adam makes good points.<br>
<br>
I want to add something important that
arises from the case of Palestine.<br>
<br>
As you know, the ISO 3166 list, maintained
by the German National Statistical
Organization, takes its input from the Un
Statistical Office (UNSO), which has the
authority to decide when an entry should be
included. I worked in the UNSO from
1973-1986, and at one point was designing a
data base for county statistics where the
underlying country structure was dynamic and
changed over time as countries merged and/or
divided. The issue was how to improve
statistical analysis when the underlying
units of observation changed composition.<br>
<br>
The specific case of Israeli statistics came
up, and I queried why Palestine was not
considered to be a statistical entity so
that the statistical profile of each entity
could be more meaningful for analytical
purposes. I was told that the decision of
what was or was not a state of territory was
political and not technical, and was
communicated from the political authorities
at the UN. That is why Palestine was
blocked and had to wait until 2000 to be
added to the root as a legitimate territory.<br>
<br>
So there you have it. The UN has the
ultimate power of deciding what 'country
codes' go into the root, not the US, and the
UN uses it.<br>
<br>
George<br>
<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
<br>
<br>
On Dec 12, 2013, at 8:22 AM, Adam Peake
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Comment below:<br>
><br>
> On Dec 10, 2013, at 6:20 AM, Jovan
Kurbalija wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Here are a few comments in line
with JK<br>
>><br>
>> So what you are saying is that the
UN could tell the US to stop<br>
>> serving the records for a ccTLD and
the US could then tell VRSN (by<br>
>> court order?) to delete that ccTLD?<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> This potential of the U.S. deleting a
ccTLD has been worried over since the
earliest days of WSIS. But there have been
wars and ccTLDs haven't been touched
(.iq/Iraq). North Korea .KP works ok <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.naenara.com.kp/en/"
target="_blank">http://www.naenara.com.kp/en/</a>>.
Palestine, .PS delegated in 2000 and
redelegated 2004. U.S. hasn't edited them
out of the root zone, so it seems we
shouldn't worry too much. However, whatever
we think the U.S. might do or not do, this
issue is unlikely to go away. It might be
helpful to codify what looks like de facto
policy, something like: 'The U.S. government
will not unilaterally remove any TLD from
the root.' (Write that up in nice language).<br>
><br>
> This could be one of the topics for the
meeting in Brazil next April, discussions
that might kick-off a process to develop and
agree a policy statement on root operations.
Not going to agree anything much in two
days, but might be able to agree on a
charter of a working group to come up
proposals/recommendations. A working group
that reports progress and outcomes within
the IGF process: first in Istanbul a few
months later, then back to Brazil for the
IGF in 2015 where any agreement might be
reviewed by a broader community. Might make
it part of a larger effort looking at the
Internationalization of the IANA, if that's
a topic for Brazil next year -- and I think
it should be one of the topics. More on
this in another email.<br>
><br>
> Adam<br>
><br>
><br>
>> JK: Sanctions cannot be adopted
without the US support. Any action under UN
Chapter VII, including sanctions, must be
agreed by the all 5 permanent members of the
Security Council (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter7.shtml"
target="_blank">http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter7.shtml</a>).<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> If that is the case, and VRSN
complied (which I think they would fight<br>
>> BTW) then it would be a UN "power"
and the US would just be an agent<br>
>> of the UN?<br>
>><br>
>> JK: If the USA, like any other
state, adopts certain UN convention or
policy, it has obligation to implement it.
If the USA supports decision on sanctions
against certain country, it should implement
the sanction regime.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
>
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<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<br>
-- <br>
Joanna Kulesza </font></span></div>
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