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Also, it is good idea to take note of 4. 2) in RFC1591, which says:<br>
<br>
The IANA is not in the business of deciding what is and what
is<br>
not a country.<br>
<br>
The selection of the ISO 3166 list as a basis for country code<br>
top-level domain names was made with the knowledge that ISO
has a<br>
procedure for determining which entities should be and should
not<br>
be on that list.<br>
<br>
This is relevant, because the ICANN so many here to refer as an
authority in this regard, at in fact a contractor to perform the
IANA function. The real authority is IANA, and in it's original
definition of it's TLD management policies it has said precisely the
above. That document has never been revised, it is only interpreted
from time to time (GAC Principles, the current FOI working group at
ccNSO).<br>
<br>
The US Government has in fact delegated all of the "power" over DNS
to IANA. Not impossible to influence it's decisions, but IANA
performance has always been subject to much scrutiny by the
community.<br>
<br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13.12.13 08:33, CW Mail wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:BFF69F12-1A2B-4B6D-BFC8-84B0ED8D73B0@christopherwilkinson.eu"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://archive.icann.org/en/committees/gac/gac-cctldprinciples-23feb00.htm">http://archive.icann.org/en/committees/gac/gac-cctldprinciples-23feb00.htm</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good morning:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I suggest that those participating in this discussion read
the GAC ccTLD Principles.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>CW</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 13 Dec 2013, at 00:25, Joanna Kulesza <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:joannakulesza@GMAIL.COM">joannakulesza@GMAIL.COM</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi everyone,<br>
<br>
</div>
as much as this is my very first post on the list,
the discussion is so riveting, I had to chip in,
with a question rather than an opinion really. <br>
<br>
Would the ICANN "power" you were discussing not
also be visible in the delegation/redelegation
policy? Not "taking the country offline" but
redelegating the management of the ccTLD to an
entitiy more... willing to colaborate with
ICANN/US? The case that always come to my mind
when we speak about ICANN "power" over the online
reflections of state sovereignty, that is the
ccTLDs, is the 2004 Haiti case: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/14/haiti_kisses_icann_ring_rewarded/">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/14/haiti_kisses_icann_ring_rewarded/</a>
or <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.icannwatch.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/26/0138212.Just">http://www.icannwatch.org/article.pl?sid=04/01/26/0138212.Just</a>
for the sake of objectivity, here's the IANA take
on the case: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.iana.org/reports/2004/ht-report-13jan04.html">http://www.iana.org/reports/2004/ht-report-13jan04.html</a>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
My question to the members of the list, should they
choose to answer it, is simple - was this a stricly
technical decision or would you consider it a
politically influenced one? Does the Haiti case stand
out? Are there any other examples of redelegation
decision viewed as controversial, like this one? Is
this a state sovereignty issue? Or not at all? <br>
<br>
</div>
Thank you, <br>
Joanna Kulesza <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/12/12 George Sadowsky <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com"
target="_blank">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">All,<br>
<br>
Adam makes good points.<br>
<br>
I want to add something important that arises from
the case of Palestine.<br>
<br>
As you know, the ISO 3166 list, maintained by the
German National Statistical Organization, takes its
input from the Un Statistical Office (UNSO), which
has the authority to decide when an entry should be
included. I worked in the UNSO from 1973-1986, and
at one point was designing a data base for county
statistics where the underlying country structure
was dynamic and changed over time as countries
merged and/or divided. The issue was how to improve
statistical analysis when the underlying units of
observation changed composition.<br>
<br>
The specific case of Israeli statistics came up, and
I queried why Palestine was not considered to be a
statistical entity so that the statistical profile
of each entity could be more meaningful for
analytical purposes. I was told that the decision
of what was or was not a state of territory was
political and not technical, and was communicated
from the political authorities at the UN. That is
why Palestine was blocked and had to wait until 2000
to be added to the root as a legitimate territory.<br>
<br>
So there you have it. The UN has the ultimate power
of deciding what 'country codes' go into the root,
not the US, and the UN uses it.<br>
<br>
George<br>
<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
<br>
<br>
On Dec 12, 2013, at 8:22 AM, Adam Peake wrote:<br>
<br>
> Comment below:<br>
><br>
> On Dec 10, 2013, at 6:20 AM, Jovan Kurbalija
wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Here are a few comments in line with JK<br>
>><br>
>> So what you are saying is that the UN could
tell the US to stop<br>
>> serving the records for a ccTLD and the US
could then tell VRSN (by<br>
>> court order?) to delete that ccTLD?<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> This potential of the U.S. deleting a ccTLD has
been worried over since the earliest days of WSIS.
But there have been wars and ccTLDs haven't been
touched (.iq/Iraq). North Korea .KP works ok <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.naenara.com.kp/en/"
target="_blank">http://www.naenara.com.kp/en/</a>>.
Palestine, .PS delegated in 2000 and redelegated
2004. U.S. hasn't edited them out of the root zone,
so it seems we shouldn't worry too much. However,
whatever we think the U.S. might do or not do, this
issue is unlikely to go away. It might be helpful
to codify what looks like de facto policy, something
like: 'The U.S. government will not unilaterally
remove any TLD from the root.' (Write that up in
nice language).<br>
><br>
> This could be one of the topics for the meeting
in Brazil next April, discussions that might
kick-off a process to develop and agree a policy
statement on root operations. Not going to agree
anything much in two days, but might be able to
agree on a charter of a working group to come up
proposals/recommendations. A working group that
reports progress and outcomes within the IGF
process: first in Istanbul a few months later, then
back to Brazil for the IGF in 2015 where any
agreement might be reviewed by a broader community.
Might make it part of a larger effort looking at
the Internationalization of the IANA, if that's a
topic for Brazil next year -- and I think it should
be one of the topics. More on this in another
email.<br>
><br>
> Adam<br>
><br>
><br>
>> JK: Sanctions cannot be adopted without the
US support. Any action under UN Chapter VII,
including sanctions, must be agreed by the all 5
permanent members of the Security Council (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter7.shtml"
target="_blank">http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter7.shtml</a>).<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> If that is the case, and VRSN complied
(which I think they would fight<br>
>> BTW) then it would be a UN "power" and the
US would just be an agent<br>
>> of the UN?<br>
>><br>
>> JK: If the USA, like any other state,
adopts certain UN convention or policy, it has
obligation to implement it. If the USA supports
decision on sanctions against certain country, it
should implement the sanction regime.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
>
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<br>
-- <br>
Joanna Kulesza
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