<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Milton L Mueller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div style="direction:ltr;font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma">I have direct experience in ARIN of individuals affiliated with government _agencies_ making a policy proposal and participating as peers in the process. <span style="font-size:10pt">I
have also seen specific agencies of national govts contract with experts to represent their positions in bottom up processes. </span>
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<div>Mostly, that's ok with me.<br>
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<div>But this is the "disaggregated" model I referred to. <span style="font-size:10pt">There is no system of representation of "government" in ARIN, or RIPE, afaik. </span><span style="font-size:10pt">I think it is dangerous to speak of "government" as
a stakeholder, if by government one means things like "Australia" or "the United States of America" or "China." I would not want to see any RIR's representational or participatory structure modified to incorporate representation of a government qua government
- as I said, such a system is fundamentally incompatible with bottom up MSM.</span></div>
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<div style="direction:ltr"><font face="Tahoma" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> McTim [<a href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com" target="_blank">dogwallah@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 01, 2013 3:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Milton L Mueller<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Andrea Glorioso<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] RE: [bestbits] What is 1Net? Blog post by Paul Wilson of APNIC<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Milton L Mueller <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div style="direction:ltr;font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma">I might add one other thing.
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<div>When Paul Wilson and other representatives of I* governance organizations happily concede that 'governments are stakeholders too' I believe that what they are doing is proposing a political bargain, not a coherent mode of governance.</div>
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<div>or perhaps simply describing reality as they experience it?</div>
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<div>As a member of the ARIN AC, you have first hand experience with Government types being active in RIR policy formation. IS this not a "coherent form' of IG?</div>
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<div>In other words, they are trying to reach an accommodation with nation-states that will preserve key elements of the status quo by reassuring state actors that they will not be left out of or excluded from the system. By calling states-as-unitary-actors
"stakeholders" who must be specially accommodated through contradictory and dysfunctional arrangements like the GAC, they are literally compromising what we know about how MS governance works in order to buy greater political support for the new institutions
from the old institutions.</div>
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<div>I agree that "separate and unequal" a la GAC, is suboptimal </div>
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Cheers,<br>
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McTim<br>
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
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