<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">if the solely objective of internationalization of ICANN is just to change the location and giving it an kind of immunity ending to erode any accountability or transparency, yes we have problem. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> I am not arguing that should be an US org under US laws. how could you conclude that?<br>
I have a question, maybe naive: if we have problem with one state to have dominant role as assumed by mant, how adding more states will solve the problem , a kind of zero sum game?</div><div class="gmail_extra">another question, what benefit for the average users far from any geopolitical consideration in such case?</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Rafik<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/11/30 parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div class="im">
<br>
<div>On Saturday 30 November 2013 10:19 AM,
Rafik Dammak wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">yes Milton it will make it the FIFA of IG world
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Rafik <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Rafik, do you in that case agree that ICANN should remain an US
organisation, subject solely to US laws... parminder <br><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/11/30 Milton L Mueller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">No,
no, no, please. That level of specificity is
counterproductive at this stage. Many people who
have studied this issue believe that turning ICANN
into an INGO is the surest way for it to escape
what little accountability it currently has. Those
willing to go along with a general call for reform
in ICANN’s US-centered oversight need not commit
themselves to a particular solution at this point,
and the language below does that. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Please
don’t come up with off the cuff quickie solutions
for this. It will take more than a scan of
Wikipedia to solve.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="142a75e5c8a46bc5_142a740b92e6130c__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></a></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
michael gurstein [mailto:<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 29, 2013 7:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
'Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Norbert Bollow'; Milton L Mueller<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [governance] DMP}
Statement on Process and Objectives for the
Global Multistakeholder Meeting on the Future
of Internet Governance</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">What
about
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>1)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span>Transitioning ICANN and
IANA to an International Non-Governmental
Organization (INGO) status: The Global Meeting
should aim at developing a suitable and widely
acceptable means to achieve the desired transition
of ICANN and IANA away from its links to the USG and
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_nongovernmental_organization" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_nongovernmental_organization</a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">M</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 29, 2013 2:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Norbert Bollow; Milton L Mueller<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] DMP} Statement on
Process and Objectives for the Global
Multistakeholder Meeting on the Future of Internet
Governance</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>ICANN (and its President/CEO) have been
"encouraged" at several opportunities to adjust its
"internationalization" rhetoric/terminology and thus
its resulting INTERNATIONALIZATION thrust to one
which is significantly more embrasive of the
objectives of, and indeed, spirit of what
GLOBALIZATION in theory, intends to achieve.</p>
<p>I believe therefore that Milton's recommendation is
timely and appropriate ... whether we use the term
"Globalization" or a perhaps more compromising and
less economics/free-market linked phrase or term
such as "Global Integration", or more radically,
"Glocalization".</p>
<p>------<br>
Rgds,</p>
<p>Tracy</p>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 29, 2013 4:52 PM,
"Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global Journal"
<<a href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net" target="_blank">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Norbert, Dear Milton,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If I may contribute, with a
somehow different and unusual perspective, and
in my humble Global Governance
observer capacity, for the pleasure of the
reflection:</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Internationalization</b>:
one wants to have a larger international
basis: more offices, more representatives,
more of a network of local branches that,
being put together, creates an
international network. Still each element
is mostly comparable to the starting point
in terms of culture, thinking... Clones
spread around the world? 'One for all'
kind of uniformity.
<i>Meaning many little ICANNs all around. </i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Globalization</b>:
this could happen without a network of
offices around the world. You can observe
a very globalized entity containing so
many different elements, co-exisiting,
still assembling one strong outlet with a
governance of its own, but embracing
'solutions' that could fit more than one
single corporation, institution, nation.
One voice, many voices... in a single
global body. So one ICANN speaking from
one point to the many in a global manner
of thinking. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Meaning one ICANN
with a big global mind.</i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Transnationalization</b>:
this tends to establish a community of
people based in various locations, trying
to forget about their local identity,
interest or belonging, with the objective
to address a more common, regional,
transnational, trans-sectorial issue. A
way to achieve an understanding of global
magnitude. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Meaning one ICANN
talking to other minds.</i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- The first option has
a few advantages. You keep a greater
control over the network, and at the end
of the day, you can pretend to be a global
minded outlet. Good communication value.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- The second option is
probably the most difficult to achieve,
specially if you are not starting from a
fully independent culture. Very
challenging when one starts from a private
or national basis.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- The third option
might be a good compromise, if each one
puts trust in the other minds ('nods'?).
But maybe a more sustainable approach, and
ultimately, one that could deliver a true
global minded system.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Obviously, very much to
be criticized, but at least worth trying
to explore. And quiet appropriate with the
current state of the IG debate.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Semantic has a lasting
effect over the narrative and the ultimate
objective. A little bit like
'multistakeholder' which has emerged from
the corporate jargon (to soften counter
forces or opponents, executives would
convene 'stakeholders' to the table for
consultation (trade union, politician...).
A pure communication tool. Plus, it has a
very poor stable definition and
understanding, and an even looser legal
impact. Something that usually brings a
lot of misunderstandings, deadlocks...</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">All the best,</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">__________________________</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.5pt">Jean-Christophe
Nothias <br>
Editor in Chief<br>
<a href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net" target="_blank">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a></span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Optima","serif""></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.5pt">@jc_nothias</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Optima","serif""></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Optima","serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Optima","serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Le 29 nov. 2013 à
20:52, Norbert Bollow a écrit :</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Am Fri,
29 Nov 2013 19:28:57 +0000<br>
schrieb Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>>:<br>
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Recognizing that
this is a late intervention (Thursday
a big family</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">holiday in the
US), is it possible to replace the
word</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">"internationalization"
with "globalization"? Increasingly
we live in</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">a world where
nations, and by extension the
"inter-national" is not</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">an adequate term
to define transborder, global
phenomena</p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
That's IMO a very valid point. Even
though nation states and their<br>
governments of course continue to have
a significant role, it has<br>
certainly become inadequate to try to
understand transborder, global<br>
phenomena by the method (that was
helpful in earlier times) of<br>
decomposing into what is happening at
the national level plus what is<br>
happening in inter-national trade and
other areas of inter-national<br>
relations.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, many civil society
people including myself are very<br>
wary of the term "globalization", as
globalization has often increased<br>
social injustices while doing nothing
to resolve the kinds of concerns<br>
that the further
"internationalization" of ICANN is
intended to address.<br>
<br>
Maybe yet another term could be
used???<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
Norbert<br>
<br>
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