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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Saturday 30 November 2013 06:58 PM,
Deirdre Williams wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAMz5XN4dHLR8u95LjBxfOewqjZcF_n5T-wDjSabW8fbAvPWsTg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Some concepts are too complex to force them into a
single word.
<div>Deirdre</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Deirdre/ All<br>
<br>
Most things in social and political discourse are complex. However,
there is always a way to build categories, split issues, and
progress in steps , whereby we can certainly talk meaningfully about
them and make social and political progress... Such a shared
intention is key...<br>
<br>
I think there are two clear issues about 'internationalisation of
ICANN'<br>
<br>
1. Its legal status, and the jurisdiction to which it is subject.<br>
<br>
2. The actual role of US-NTIA in authorising every change in the
root file.<br>
<br>
It seems that other than the US gov itself, everyone agrees that
US-NTIA should be divested of that 'root change authorising'
role..... Then the question comes; (a) should the role then be
exercised directly and finally by ICANN itself, or (b) another body
to undertake this role (and just this role and nothing else) is
needed. <br>
<br>
A lot of people - including i* group - are of the opinion that (a)
above is the best option. Some others think that every significant
decision pertaining to a crucial global infrastructure should be
subject to a second opinion or confirmation, as a normal prudence,
by a body different from the executive authority (ICANN Board). One
way would be to have some kind of international oversight board (not
necessarily inter-gov) undertaking the same role as undertaken by
US-NTIA today. Another way is to allow ICANN to make root changes
but all such decisions are post facto reviewed and confirmed by such
an international oversight board. ( Whether with a pre facto or post
facto role, such an oversight board will exercise its role within
clearly set our parameters and rules.) A third way is to only have
an appellate board which reviews root change decisions only if an
appeal is made to it through a due process. <br>
<br>
Therefore, on point 2 above, we can easily agree to ask US-NTIA to
shed its oversight role. What should further be done can be
discussed along the above three lines (others may add more options
if any)<br>
<br>
Point 1 above is more contentious. Although, in principles, it is
easy to assert that a global resource cannot be subject to the
jurisdiction of one country and that it should be subject to
international jurisdiction. The issue then is; how to form such an
international jurisdiction. <br>
<br>
Here too, it is easy for us as a civil society group to assert the
principle - yes, it is untenable that ICANN continues to be subject
to US law and jurisdiction. ICANN needs to be made subject to
international law and jurisdiction. Lets do first agree on this
principle. If we do, we can then take up the subsequent discussion
of how to establish an appropriate jurisdiction and legal framework
for ICANN. I am sure we can close onto a few clear options, if not
agree on one.<br>
<br>
A structured discussion on the above lines will help identify areas
we all agree on, explore the possibility of convergences on those we
do not, and in the latter case, at least come out with a clear set
of alternatives.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAMz5XN4dHLR8u95LjBxfOewqjZcF_n5T-wDjSabW8fbAvPWsTg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 30 November 2013 09:14, Bertrand de
La Chapelle <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bdelachapelle@gmail.com" target="_blank">bdelachapelle@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear all,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Finding an appropriate term is something that is an
ongoing difficulty for the reasons detailed in this
thread. And the ICANN community, staff and board are
regularly struggling with this. The current
consultations for the Strategic Plan illustrate it. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
In this context, Milton rightly highlights the ambiguity
when discussing "ICANN's internationalization". There are
different complementary dimensions behind this word, and
it is important to distinguish them. I see at least the
following three aspects:
<div>
<ol>
<li><b>The Organization's physical presence and
outreach</b>: this includes the current opening of
hubs in Singapore and Istanbul, the creation of
additional engagement offices, the role of the
"regional" VPs, the development of multilingualism,
etc... Generally speaking this is about ICANN moving
closer to the people it serves, rather than having
one core site of operations and asking people to
just come to its meetings. In a nutshell, this is
about ICANN thinking internationally. <br>
</li>
<li><b>The incorporation of the organization in one
particular country </b>(US in the State of
California) and submission to one national legal
regime vs exploring possible alternatives, such as:
specific immunities, another country with specific
regime for international non-profit organizations
(cf. the report mentioned by Nick), or a more
international status (INGO as Michael suggested) ...
As mentioned by Karl, there are difficult legal and
practical questions and this is why this has not
necessarily moved much until now. Furthermore, ICANN
had many other fish to fry in the last years,
including improving its own operational capacity and
the management of the new gTLD program. ICANN is
performing a global public interest function, is
therefore a global organization in that regard, even
if the current international system does not easily
(if at all) allow to create global structures that
are not intergovernmental. <br>
</li>
<li>Last but not least, the term "ICANN's
internationalization" also includes, as Milton
noted, the question of <b>the role of the US
administration in the IANA process</b>. This
itself actually covers two dimensions: the fact that
the IANA contract giving ICANN the responsibility
for the clerical verification of the requests for
changes in the root zone file is still issued by the
US government AND the specific role of the US NTIA
in the final transmission of the change to Verisign.
This is now less a taboo for discussion since the
Montevideo Declaration, which is good, and I am
deeply convinced there are ways to address this
issue in a fact-based and constructive manner. That
being said, the important part is more about the
internationalization of NTIA's role in the IANA
workflow than the internationalization of ICANN
itself. And the solution for that - even if we use
the term "internationalization" - is not a sort of
Digital Security Council. Innovation is needed here
if we collectively want to move to a system that
guarantees for ALL actors the integrity of the root
zone file, ensuring that no one, voluntarily or
involuntarily, can tamper with the root. <br>
</li>
</ol>
</div>
<div>Maybe different words could be used for these
different dimensions. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I hope this helps. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bests</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bertrand</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at
4:37 AM, Milton L Mueller <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
like these distinctions and I think they
are valid. However all three definitions
overlook one of the most important
aspects of the globalization or
transnationalization of ICANN: the
removal of the source of authority from
a single national government and the
linkage of its authority over the DNS
root zone file to a global polity. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">--MM</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="142a9261ecb54a59_142a715562ed1121__MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></a></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
Jean-Christophe NOTHIAS I The Global
Journal [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net"
target="_blank">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 29,
2013 3:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Norbert Bollow; Milton L
Mueller<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span></p>
<div><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] DMP}
Statement on Process and Objectives
for the Global Multistakeholder
Meeting on the Future of Internet
Governance</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Norbert, Dear
Milton,</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If I may
contribute, with a somehow different
and unusual perspective, and in my
humble Global Governance
observer capacity, for the pleasure
of the reflection:</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Internationalization</b>:
one wants to have a larger
international basis: more
offices, more representatives,
more of a network of local
branches that, being put
together, creates an
international network. Still
each element is mostly
comparable to the starting point
in terms of culture, thinking...
Clones spread around the world?
'One for all' kind of
uniformity. <i>Meaning many
little ICANNs all around. </i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Globalization</b>:
this could happen without a
network of offices around the
world. You can observe a very
globalized entity containing so
many different elements,
co-exisiting, still assembling
one strong outlet with a
governance of its own, but
embracing 'solutions' that could
fit more than one single
corporation, institution,
nation. One voice, many
voices... in a single global
body. So one ICANN speaking from
one point to the many in a
global manner of thinking. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Meaning
one ICANN with a big global
mind.</i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Transnationalization</b>:
this tends to establish a
community of people based in
various locations, trying to
forget about their local
identity, interest or belonging,
with the objective to address a
more common, regional,
transnational, trans-sectorial
issue. A way to achieve an
understanding of global
magnitude. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Meaning
one ICANN talking to other
minds.</i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- The first
option has a few advantages. You
keep a greater control over the
network, and at the end of the
day, you can pretend to be a
global minded outlet. Good
communication value.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- The second
option is probably the most
difficult to achieve, specially
if you are not starting from a
fully independent culture. Very
challenging when one starts from
a private or national basis.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- The third
option might be a good
compromise, if each one puts
trust in the other minds
('nods'?). But maybe a more
sustainable approach, and
ultimately, one that could
deliver a true global minded
system.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Obviously,
very much to be criticized, but
at least worth trying to
explore. And quiet appropriate
with the current state of the IG
debate.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Semantic has
a lasting effect over the
narrative and the ultimate
objective. A little bit like
'multistakeholder' which has
emerged from the corporate
jargon (to soften counter forces
or opponents, executives would
convene 'stakeholders' to the
table for consultation (trade
union, politician...). A pure
communication tool. Plus, it has
a very poor stable definition
and understanding, and an even
looser legal impact. Something
that usually brings a lot of
misunderstandings, deadlocks...</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">All
the best,</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>__________________________</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span>Jean-Christophe
Nothias </span></span><span><br>
<span>Editor in Chief</span><br>
<span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net" target="_blank">jc.nothias@theglobaljournal.net</a></span></span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Optima","serif""></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span>@jc_nothias</span></span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Optima","serif""></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Optima","serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Optima","serif""> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Optima","serif""><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Le 29
nov. 2013 à 20:52, Norbert
Bollow a écrit :</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am Fri,
29 Nov 2013 19:28:57 +0000<br>
schrieb Milton L Mueller
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>>:<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Recognizing
that this is a late
intervention (Thursday a
big family</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">holiday
in the US), is it
possible to replace the
word</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">"internationalization"
with "globalization"?
Increasingly we live in</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">a
world where nations, and
by extension the
"inter-national" is not</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">an
adequate term to define
transborder, global
phenomena</p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
That's IMO a very valid
point. Even though nation
states and their<br>
governments of course
continue to have a
significant role, it has<br>
certainly become
inadequate to try to
understand transborder,
global<br>
phenomena by the method
(that was helpful in
earlier times) of<br>
decomposing into what is
happening at the national
level plus what is<br>
happening in
inter-national trade and
other areas of
inter-national<br>
relations.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, many
civil society people
including myself are very<br>
wary of the term
"globalization", as
globalization has often
increased<br>
social injustices while
doing nothing to resolve
the kinds of concerns<br>
that the further
"internationalization" of
ICANN is intended to
address.<br>
<br>
Maybe yet another term
could be used???<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
Norbert<br>
<br>
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International Diplomatic Academy (<a
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