<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Michael<br>
<br><div><div>On Nov 21, 2013, at 4:02 PM, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks for the endorsement Bill, but you left out what I consider to be a crucial element which is that that support should not be done simply by attempting to incorporate/co-opt civil society within ICANN (as seems to be the current direction) but rather to provide a means for the independent support of an independent, broadly based and inclusive Civil Society—not an easy task to accomplish but not I think, impossible.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I have no idea on what basis you are characterizing “the current direction” in that manner. What conversations with whom have you had that gives you this special insight about “co-optation” being underway? All I have heard, which was responsive to your prior comment so I replied, is that ICANN recognizes that CS needs to be fully included in the effort.<br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">A useful example with some (but not total) relevance is the support that OSI provided for CSISAC at the OECD, which among other things,</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>So you’re talking about money? I’ve not heard discussions of money, just of ensuring the platform is open to all in terms of participation and inputs.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> allowed for the hiring of a (part-time) CS coordinator and some (limited) funds for selected/expert CS participation in various OECD substantive activities/events. BTW one of the reasons that this worked to the degree that it did was that the funding went (indirectly) to CSISAC and the co-ordinator reported to the Steering Committee rather than for example, the funding being given to one or another of the organizational members of CSISAC who then had the responsibility for (opportunity to) pick and choose re: how the funds were spent (which inevitably leads to suspicion and bad feeling).<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Of course, the OECD is quite a different space from the IG one but various groupings within CS including notably a lot of the current parties in the IG CS space have managed to cooperate and accomplish quite a great deal as a result, in large part, of the (quite modest) financial support provided by OSI.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Yes, it’s a different space. But at this point we’re still talking about much more basic things, like what the framework for participation in planning arrangements will be, how people will provide inputs, etc. The Brazilians will have more to say after their meeting Monday.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Bill<br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">M,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>William Drake [<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, November 21, 2013 10:38 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Governance; michael gurstein<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Suresh Ramasubramanian<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [governance] Networkworld: ICANN Sets Up A Coalition to address new Internet governance challenges<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">On Nov 21, 2013, at 2:27 AM, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Many are uneasy with this but if ICANN wishes to occupy that role (and given their privileged financial position as gatekeeper/rent extractor they are in a position to present themselves for this) then they have an interest in/responsibility for supporting the weakest link in that multi-stakeholder Internet ecology i.e. Civil Society.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">I can endorse the second lat of the sentence, and we have communicated this to Fadi and senior staff in some detail. They say they get it.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Bill<o:p></o:p></div></div></div>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>