<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Well, I was precisely thinking to John (who always speaks only for himself, just like me ;)) and to Adiel, as they responded to Jeremy's reservations about 1net. I think we need to set aside mistrust and other such feelings/perceptions and do our best to make this work, at least until we are proven wrong with hard facts. And frankly, I don't see how this would happen since it has been recognized that we can have our direct channel to BR gov for the sole purpose of the BR conference. <br>
<br></div>Unless...<br></div>Is this about strategizing and positioning for post-BRconference? Hmmm... we'll still have time to assess the situation by then (including the meeting outcomes) and decide whether to make IGC or BB the CS counterpart and parallel to 1net or not. Just hoping this is not going to be an open season for power grab on the part of CSOs, which might be the only explanation left, in my opinion, for refusing to engage and cooperate with critical non-state stakeholders who would have shown good faith so far. <br>
<br></div>Suresh, why can't we all get along? why am I often under the impression that you're trying to nag someone or are those just nudges? oh, then my bad! ;)<br><br></div>mc.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 4:39 PM, John Curran <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jcurran@istaff.org" target="_blank">jcurran@istaff.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Suresh -</div><div><br></div><div>It is my understanding the 1net initiative is about catalyzing "a multi-stakeholder movement to </div><div>develop, through an open processes, a framework for evolving, broadening and strengthening </div>
<div>Internet Governance/Cooperation arrangements, and to advocate for its adoption." That's </div><div>likely to last some number of years (i.e. longer then the Brazil meeting) and (in my opinion), it </div><div>
cannot be the case that participating in 1net closes opportunity for expression or participation</div><div>elsewhere.</div><div><br></div><div>CS should participate in 1net if believes that the it will advance CS's goals and mission.</div>
<div><br></div><div>CS should reach out and seek representation and participation in other forums as it feels</div><div>appropriate. If the purpose of the letter is "technical community is not civil society, shut </div>
<div>them out", then that does not seem particularly productive to me (but it's still your right to </div><div>do so.) If the purpose of a letter is to note that 1net is a fledging organization that at this</div>
<div>point cannot reasonably be expected to represent CS with respect to the Brazil meeting</div><div>planning activities and that you'd prefer to make CS appointments directly, then it's worth </div><div>making that point. You could even cc the 1net Steering Committee (if one should ever </div>
<div>come into being); they may even concur with the observation.</div><div><br></div><div>/John</div><div><br></div><div>Disclaimer: Very much my own views, and solely as one Internet citizen on this mailing list.<br></div>
<div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Nov 19, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian <<a href="mailto:suresh@hserus.net" target="_blank">suresh@hserus.net</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto"><div>On 19-Nov-2013, at 21:27, Suresh Ramasubramanian <<a href="mailto:srs@savitr.info" target="_blank">srs@savitr.info</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div><div>Oh, but that'd probably defeat the whole raison d'etre of that letter :)</div>
<div><br></div><div>"technical community is not civil society, shut them out" etc etc.<br><br>I say that while echoing multiple calls for transparency.</div><div><br>--srs (iPad)</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite">
On 19-Nov-2013, at 21:08, Marilia Maciel <<a href="mailto:mariliamaciel@gmail.com" target="_blank">mariliamaciel@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Just to clarify further: I am not against the letter Parminder suggested, just think we could calibrate the language not to dismiss 1net as an option for participation.<div>M</div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Marilia Maciel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mariliamaciel@gmail.com" target="_blank">mariliamaciel@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Parminder,<div><br></div><div>I am writing from ICANN meeting in BA where some folks from CS are also arguing for transparency, openness and participation for civil society in the Brazil process. In a similar way that we raised this in the IGF during meetings with the Brazilian government in the iStart meeting and in other spaces, we are doing it here with ICANN staff (Fadi, Thereza, Board members), with governments, etc. My very quick thoughts based on the present situation (things are changing very fast, so I reserve the right to change opinion) is:</div>
<div><br></div><div>- It is not either/or. Both things should be done together: populate and participate 1net and continue to organize ourselves in our own spaces, sending contributions as IGC, BB or individual organizations. It is not clear yet how relevant 1net will be, but there is a possibility it will be important, so we should not be out of it. We also need a channel to exchange with other groups and this could be the channel</div>
<div><br></div><div>- We need to make sure that a steering committee of 1 net is representative and includes CS reps chosen by CS itself </div><div><br></div><div>- 1 net does not exist so far and does not have a committee. What people are doing is going straight to Fadi or to the Br gov. For communication purposes, we have appointed liaisons and should reinforce that these people are our liaisons for the moment until 1 net exists and until (and if) we feel comfortable with it. </div>
<div><br></div><div>- Our liaisons need to be included in all meetings</div><div><br></div><div>Marília </div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:35 PM, parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<font face="Verdana">Dear All<br>
<br>
There are strong indications from all round that Brazil gov may
just be taking the easy expedient to channelise non gov
participation in the Brazil meeting through the 1net structure....
And we know that there was overwhelming feeling among civil
society that this should not be allowed, and we should have a
direct liason. (Civil society outside the active IG kind is even
more strongly of this view). Are we know willing to come out of
our paralysis?<br>
<br>
Lets write a short and succinct letter that we want direct and
independent liason to the Brazil meeting and want to independently
present our liasons directly accountable to us and not through the
1net or whatever...And just forward the four Brazilain names we
have as our liasons... We do not have to change/ expand that
liason structure. Havent the time for that. (and if some people
insist, we can always do it a bit later). The following is a quick
text suggestion... <br>
<br>
</font>
<blockquote><font face="Verdana">We of the undersigned civil society
networks and groups are pleased to note that Brazil has made a
formal announcement of a ............. (put the official name of
the meeting here) . We are happy to help the government of
Brazil organise this meeting and take it to a successful
conclusion. We have chosen the below mentioned four persons to
be our liason to the Brazilian government and also to be put on
any steering committee that may be set up.</font><br>
<br>
<font face="Verdana">....</font><br>
<font face="Verdana">......</font><br>
<br>
<font face="Verdana">......</font><br>
<font face="Verdana">...... the names of our four Brazilian
liasons </font><br>
<br>
<font face="Verdana">Please include our above representatives in
all meetings, formal presentations etc that will henceforth take
place regarding the proposed multistakeholder meeting on the
future of the Internet.....</font> We will route our inputs to
the organisation of this meeting through these reps...<br>
<br>
<font face="Verdana">Signed</font><br>
</blockquote>
<font face="Verdana"><br>
(ends)<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font>
</div>
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<br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div><b>Marília Maciel</b></div>
<div><font color="#444444">Pesquisadora Gestora</font></div><div><font color="#444444">Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - </font><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">FGV Direito Rio</span></div><div><font color="#444444"><br>
</font></div><div><font color="#666666">Researcher and Coordinator</font></div><div><font color="#666666">Center for Technology & Society - </font><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)">FGV Law School</span></div><div>
<font color="#666666"><a href="http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts" target="_blank">http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts</a><br>
</font></div><div><font color="#666666"><br></font></div><div><font color="#666666">DiploFoundation associate</font></div><div><font color="#666666"><a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/" target="_blank">www.diplomacy.edu</a></font></div>
<div><font color="#666666"><br></font></div><div><br><div><br></div></div></div>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div><b>Marília Maciel</b></div><div><font color="#444444">Pesquisadora Gestora</font></div><div><font color="#444444">Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - </font><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">FGV Direito Rio</span></div>
<div><font color="#444444"><br></font></div><div><font color="#666666">Researcher and Coordinator</font></div><div><font color="#666666">Center for Technology & Society - </font><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)">FGV Law School</span></div>
<div><font color="#666666"><a href="http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts" target="_blank">http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts</a><br></font></div><div><font color="#666666"><br></font></div><div><font color="#666666">DiploFoundation associate</font></div>
<div><font color="#666666"><a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/" target="_blank">www.diplomacy.edu</a></font></div><div><font color="#666666"><br></font></div><div><br><div><br></div></div></div>
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