<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>+1 to J. Curran latest post here.<br><br></div>ICANN has no legitimacy to choose CS members ("representatives") to a group they have decided to form? I don't get that. ICANN includes CS members, doesn't it? What else is the ALAC crowd if not CS? And we've seen non-commercial stakeholder group members making it from the GNSO council to the Board, do they cease then being CS? I think we need to stop that kind of complaining! What makes us more legitimately CS than others? Just because we talk IG all days and all day long? It's like we are now assuming that CS means professional CS, those making their living in or with CS organizations, whereas the peasant who is not aware of your existence is just as CS as you, just like any other citizen who may be aware of it but doesn't engage with you or in this circle. Now, ICANN perfectly has the right to bypass IGC+BB and choose CS from wherever to be part of a group they initiate, whether from inside its community or from outside of it (including the peasant, if they so desire.)<br>
<br></div>So please stop thinking that IGC and BB are the only path to "legitimate" and "global" CS representation (or rather, inclusion) when it comes to Internet policy. ICANN decided to form the strategic panels, we didn't. They had their goals when they made that decision. So if this "high-level" group just announced now stands in for the 5th panels planned, why should we be surprised they decide unilaterally (after calling for an unrestricted show of interest to be a member, mind you) on the membership, as has been pointed out? If we had been producing some substantive outputs about evolving IG etc., then someone would be paying attention and it would have been understandably troubling for us to see that none of our effort is being taking into account. ICANN or any other structure which has the autonomy to act could include individuals who happen to be in these groups (IGC and BB) but I submit that would be because those individuals may have done some remarkable and relevant job somewhere (working groups, task forces, etc.), certainly not just because of their membership here. CS members broadly speaking are not that scarce to find outside here, you know, and we don't represent as much as we think we do.<br>
<br></div>As a reminder, following is what I wrote in connection to this more than a month ago in our discussion following the announcement of the "summit" then.<br><div><br>On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Mawaki Chango <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kichango@gmail.com" target="_blank">kichango@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
Anja
has a point... and so does Parminder. We wouldn't want this initiative
to set in as one of two leaders of two camps, with CS being only
reactive (as often) after the details of the initiative are defined, or
even after that narrative about the initiative is widely publicized. I
have to say I'm a little surprised, for all the energy and time we have
spent debating ourselves and against each others over the last too many
months, and too many other months before that, and again before, etc. we
do not have at this point a compiled list of critical questions, items,
issues we think are priorities that need to be addressed as part of
international policy for the global internet governance.<div>
<br></div><div>Ideally, the existence of such list would have helped
address the two perspectives: Put international CS on the map within a
couple of days after the news emerged and yet in a way that is even more
substantive than the initiative itself in its initial form. Imagine
that! Maybe those high-level leaders and their institutions would now be
reacting to CS in the process of moving their agenda forward on this.</div>
<div><br></div><div>And I shall add that exactly was the challenge put
before us by the Indian Minister we met in Baku. To paraphrase, he
basically said and asked: You (CS) know as well as we (Govt.) do that
these issues are complex, and there is no simple, one-sided solution. As
the challenges of the internet continue to manifest themselves,
governments will always try to do what they do best (at least from the
standpoint of states), the best way they know. But in the meantime what
are you CS proposing? How can you help us do what needs to be done
without unwanted collateral damages (wrt the rights of honest people,
etc.)? (Or something along those lines.) I know there are individuals
among us who have been doing substantive work, including research. But
as a whole, we CS enjoy chatters. We always seem to want to have a place
at the table before thinking things through. And we put our small money
where our mouth is, that is, in chatters. And our energy in contentious
useless debates.<br>...<br><br></div><div>Best,<br></div>
<div><br></div><div>Mawaki<br></div><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:03 AM, Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com" target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear All,<br>
<br>
Some related links:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2013/11/global-panel-address-future-internet-governance" target="_blank">http://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2013/11/global-panel-address-future-internet-governance</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20131117_high_level_panel_formed_on_the_future_of_internet_governance/" target="_blank">http://www.circleid.com/posts/20131117_high_level_panel_formed_on_the_future_of_internet_governance/</a><br>
<br>
Sala<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<div><div><br>
> On Nov 18, 2013, at 2:36 AM, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@istaff.org" target="_blank">jcurran@istaff.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> On Nov 18, 2013, at 1:40 AM, McTim <<a href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com" target="_blank">dogwallah@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 9:06 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <<a href="mailto:jeremy@ciroap.org" target="_blank">jeremy@ciroap.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> So it seems that ICANN has taken it upon itself to select the civil society<br>
>>> representatives<br>
>><br>
>> Are they "representatives"?<br>
><br>
> I don't believe that any of them are there in anything other than their<br>
> individual capacity. I certainly don't consider them a priori to be<br>
> representative of my views, but I will welcome their report and hope<br>
> to find it informative in some manner.<br>
><br>
> Note - there's nothing to prevent another group from forming a "Higher-<br>
> Level Panel on the Future of Internet Governance" (or a "Lower-level<br>
> Panel" or "Panel of the True Experts on Internet Governance"), and<br>
> then producing their own report for input to the Brazil meeting. I<br>
> thought that the announcement of this particular panel may be of some<br>
> interest to the CS community and hence my email.<br>
><br>
> FYI,<br>
> /John<br>
><br>
> Disclaimers: My views alone; no panel was consulted in their preparation.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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