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<font face="Verdana">Hi Rafik<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 11 October 2013 09:00 PM,
Rafik Dammak wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAH5sTh=9EspyFdfKAkhx0qrLPuP0vbPw0xyZmL1CgpytNT-s3g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Parminder,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>sorry I was not asking about the draft letter but more what
I understood from your proposal is that we move quickly and
spend time shorter than usual even if there are concerns . </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Firstly, we can take the usual time for seeking consensus. Just not
postpone to another time... Secondly, I have not clearly heard, or
any rate understood, the concerns.<br>
<br>
Lets be clear what we are doing at present - Just welcoming an
initiative that by all means looks like a serious outcome oriented
or at least outcome seeking one, and saying that we want to be there
right away driving it along with others.... What is wrong with it.
The potential benefit is clear - we try to get a bit tri - lateral
about this initiative.... Any other time will be too late.... And as
I said I dont see the downside....<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAH5sTh=9EspyFdfKAkhx0qrLPuP0vbPw0xyZmL1CgpytNT-s3g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I want to be sure if I got you message correctly.</div>
<div>I am still cautious with hurrying to write letter , I am
still not convinced and I want to highlight that any action we
take, will have impact soon or later and can backfire. I
don't think that you would disagree with more strategical
approach. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
You are just making a general statement that caution and foresight
is good - and with such a statement who can disagree.... But here I
havent been told the risk - and beyond a point, just about any
political act carries risk. <br>
<br>
Regards, parminder <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAH5sTh=9EspyFdfKAkhx0qrLPuP0vbPw0xyZmL1CgpytNT-s3g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Best,</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Rafik</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/10/11 parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <font
face="Verdana">It is here<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014"
target="_blank">http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014</a><br>
<br>
Just a word of caution - we dont want to make this an
ominbus document of demands. At this stage we need a
clear, crisp and strong letter, of a few sentences,
that Brazilian President or some top guy would
actually read, and not get confusing messages. I am
not saying we should not say whatever we definitively
want to say - but be clear and short, that is all.<span
class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
parminder<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>On Friday 11 October 2013 11:15 AM, Rafik
Dammak wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Parminder,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>sorry I am not really getting the proposal
you are developing here? can you please
clarify?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div> Rafik </div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/10/11 parminder
<span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
<font face="Verdana">Since as argued
below, in our judgement, time is
strategically of essense, some of us
would keep working on a posible text
over today and try to present
something to IGC and BB by the end of
the day.... We do very much hope IGC
and BB can sign on it by consensus,
but it doesnt happen we would open it
to organisations and people who want
to sign it (sorry, this is a practice
I normally do not like so much, but I
dont think it is ok that we can
produce a statement to critique a UN
process is just no time, with all kind
of ambiguous languages, and on such an
important - potential game changer -
initiative from a developing country,
a paralysis seems to be setting in)...<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Friday 11 October 2013 11:02
AM, parminder wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Well let
then that be as it has to be... "<span>There
is <em>a tide</em> in the <em>affairs
of men</em>. Which, taken at
the flood, leads on to
fortune"... </span><br>
<br>
Leadership doesnt come searching
for you, you have to seize it....
President Rousseff was made, what
would have perhaps been, somewhat
a regular kind of offer. She
seized it with both her hands,
even announced the like month
etc.. That is what gave it such a
sudden high prominence, and people
are celebrating Rousseff, and
somewhere, if it plays its cards
well, Brazil have now got an
edge.... which it can use to
further its interest...<br>
<br>
Civil society also is supposed to
be representing some interests -
real interests of real people, who
are most marginalised, and we have
to take our own responsibility
seriously . We cannot be eternally
paralysed, which hurts these
interests. If there are real
differences of views, well, that
counts.... But a permanent simple
wait-and-watch attitude would do
us no good...<br>
<br>
Lets analyse what we have here....
Or what risks we run and what
gains we can make... And others
must also contribute what they
think are risks or advantages....
merely saying we are not sure yet,
tells talk more, do face to face
and all,,,, Such stuff I think,
just my own view, is not the
appropriate response. <br>
<br>
ICANN, either on its own or tech
community's behalf tries to cosy
up to the Brazilians (perhaps in
anticipation of the new proposal
for democratising global IG that
Rousseff said Brazil will soon
present - BTW, the day of the
annual discussion on WSIS and IG
issues in the UN GA is 22nd Oct,
but whatever...) . It proposes a
real dialogue to see what needs to
be changed about the global
governance of the Internet.
Rousseff immediately seizes the
initiative, and even declares a
possible timeline, just like that,
off-hand.... That is leadership
material. That is all that has
happened, and that is all anyone
knows has happened. There is
nothing hidden that civil society
may suddenly become complicit to
if they support this proposal.<br>
<br>
In supporting it, we would only be
saying - <br>
(1) yes, we agree that 'a real
dialogue' on what needs to change
in global governance of the
Internet should take place with
some urgency, <br>
(2) such a dialogue should take
place in an open and not a hidden
manner, <br>
(3) it is certainly encouraging
that the initiative comes from one
of the key developing nations -
the main votaries of a 'real
change' - and ICANN or the
technical community - seen as the
main symbol and defender of status
quo,and that <br>
(4) we want civil society to be
equally there in the middle of all
action, as the dialogue shapes and
takes place...<br>
<br>
Nothing more and nothing less. (If
anything sinister about the
proposed meeting surfaces at any
later time we can as publicly
withdraw our support, saying this
is not at all what we bargained
for)<br>
<br>
So either people here agree to the
above, and we can write a
statement, or they dont... This is
the time to do the statement, when
people are still wondering what
kind of initiative it really is,
and with what implications. Throw
in our hat - and well, kind of
make this thing somewhat
trilateral from its current
bi-lateral status (Brazil - ICANN
tech community) We may not
succeed, but we must try. .... In
a few weeks, the initiative would
already be too solidified in fact,
or in people's mind for civil
society support to have this kind
of impact....<br>
<br>
Parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On Friday 11 October 2013
05:56 AM, Ian Peter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Calibri'">
<div>I agree with Deborah –
lets wait till a bit more
information emerges. We
can draft a letter which
is more meaningful when we
have a better idea of the
scope, objectives,
possible outcomes, likely
attendees, and possible
processes for the
conference. It’s quite
likely more information
will emerge in the next
week or so, therefore I
think we should discuss at
Bali and before then try
to find out a little more.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ian Peter</div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-size:small;display:inline;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';font-weight:normal">
<div style="FONT:10pt
tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="deborah@accessnow.org"
href="mailto:deborah@accessnow.org"
target="_blank">Deborah
Brown</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, October 11,
2013 10:35 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="nnenna75@gmail.com" href="mailto:nnenna75@gmail.com"
target="_blank">Nnenna
Nwakanma</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [governance] RE:
[bestbits] Rousseff
& Chehade:
Brazil will host
world event on
Internet governance
in 2014</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-size:small;display:inline;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';font-weight:normal">
<div dir="ltr">Dear all,
<div> </div>
<div>I see the advantage
of engaging early on
this, but I'm a bit
concerned that we are
rushing unnecessarily
to finalize a letter
before many of us
travel and are
otherwise
overstretched. I
wonder if it might
make more sense to
continue this
discussion online and
take advantage of the
in-person meetings in
Bali, for those of us
attending, to develop
a CS agenda. Also, as
others have pointed
out, we know so little
about the initiative
at this point.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The draft text
(available here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014" target="_blank">http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014</a>)
does not seem to
capture the cautious
optimism that a number
of people have
expressed. I also have
concerns about
providing our
"strongest
endorsement" of the
Marco Civil process,
when that process is
not yet complete. Of
course the text of the
letter could change
dramatically in just a
few hours ;)<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I find Nnenna's
approach to be sound,
but it does imply a
follow on
communication with
more concrete
proposals. I wonder if
it might be more
effective to
streamline our
communication to the
Brazilian president
and head of ICANN. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>To sum up, I see
clear advantages to
both "striking while
the iron is hot" and a
more cautious
approach. But given
the factors I
mentioned above, I
would support taking
some extra time if we
need it. In any case,
I'm looking forward to
hearing others' ideas
and continuing the
discussion around this
important development.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best regards, <br>
Deborah </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at
3:41 PM, Nnenna
Nwakanma <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nnenna75@gmail.com" target="_blank">nnenna75@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc
1px solid">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear all<br>
<br>
<ol>
<li>I do
believe that
if any support
there is, from
the civil
society, it is
support for an
IDEA that
"appears" more
open and
inclusive that
the current
IGF </li>
<li>So I am
cautious about
writing a
letter that
may be in any
way understood
as "Civil
Society lauds
Dilma and
ICANN's push".
</li>
<li>A short
letter
informing that
global Civil
Society that
are working
on, concerned
about and/or
interested in
IG and
Internet
issues intend
to play key
roles in the
summit. </li>
<li>I believe
we should
communicate
key values we
plan to pursue
in the summit
</li>
<li>Underline
the central
idea of
multistakeholder
participation
</li>
<li>Say that
we are
beginnning
discussions
about the
diverse roles
that CS can
play and that
some time in
Bali will be
dedicated to
the issue
during the BB
meeting in
Bali.<br>
<br>
</li>
</ol>
</div>
If we recall,
workshop 127
in Bali will
be discussing
the MS
Selection
processes, and
I do hope,
personally
that we can
use that
opportunity to
sharpen the
focus. A
reminder of
the WS is on <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/wks2013/workshop_2013_status_list_view.php?xpsltipq_je=127"
target="_blank">http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/wks2013/workshop_2013_status_list_view.php?xpsltipq_je=127</a><br>
<br>
</div>
I am traveling
in unconnected
rural areas but
will be back
online and I'm
happy to
contribute
language if any
text begins to
surface. In
case I do not,
here are my
ideas:<br>
</div>
<ol>
<li>Say what
exactly it is
the global CS
is supporting,
which is the
idea, and not
the
institutions </li>
<li>Make a clear
statement on
our
willingness to
engage </li>
<li>Recall that
our engagement
is based on
the
Multistakeholder
principle </li>
<li>Inform that
discussions
have started
and are
ongoing </li>
<li>Say we will
be coming up
with ore
concrete
engagement
proposals </li>
<li>Requesto
have
fundamental
info, if
available, to
help us scope
the idea
itself.</li>
</ol>
<p>Best</p>
<span><font
color="#888888">
<p> </p>
<p>Nnenna<br>
</p>
</font></span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Oct 10,
2013 at 7:01
PM, Joana
Varon <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com"
target="_blank">joana@varonferraz.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204)
1px solid">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear
people, <br>
<br>
</div>
For the level
of information
I have (which
is basically:
Brazil and
ICANN have
proposed to
host a Summit
on Internet
after April -
coincidentally
or right after
the meeting on
Sharm el Sheik
and before the
presidential
elections
period), I
don't feel
comfortable
about writing
a letter
congratulating
for something
I dont really
know what it
is. <br>
<br>
</div>
But I do truly
support Anja's
suggestion to
start working
on our agenda
online and,
with a
potential to
be much
richer, during
our several
meetings in
Bali. (what do
we want from
all this
besides
participating
in the
Summit??) <br>
<br>
</div>
In the
meanwhile, I
rather take
breath to
understand and
discuss this
with the
Brazilian
government and
Brazilian
colleagues
from civil
society or
other sectors.
And see what
is the final
draft of Marco
Civil that the
government
will bring to
our table very
soon (if it
truly endorses
all the
principles she
has mentioned
at the UNGA).
<br>
<br>
</div>
I'm sorry if
it's a bit of
a skeptic or
over cautious
position, but
I really need
more inputs to
see the big
picture. <br>
<div> </div>
<div>All the
best<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
joana<br>
</font></span></div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Oct 10,
2013 at 2:59
PM, michael
gurstein <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204)
1px solid">+1<br>
<br>
M<br>
<div><br>
-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a><br>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>]
On Behalf Of
Carlos A.
Afonso<br>
Sent:
Thursday,
October 10,
2013 10:12 AM<br>
To: McTim<br>
Cc: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
michael
gurstein; Lee
W McKnight;
Rafik<br>
Dammak; Joana
Varon;
<,<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>>,;
NCSG List<br>
Subject: Re:
[governance]
RE: [bestbits]
Rousseff &
Chehade:
Brazil will<br>
host world
event on
Internet
governance in
2014<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Dear
compa McT,<br>
<br>
You being a
rigorous
techie, maybe
you will not
change your
logical
view...<br>
:) And I
understand
there is a lot
of people in
all sectors
who feel<br>
disturbed by
the emerging
presence of
Brazil and its
concrete
proposals to<br>
finally move
on.<br>
<br>
At the very
beginning Fadi
describes the
motivation --
Rousseff's
statement<br>
at the UN, her
clear
adherence to
the basic
principles
most of civil
society<br>
defends (which
she has
repeated
several times
in her radio
program and
her<br>
twitter
@dilmabr), and
her proposal
to build a
planetary
framework of<br>
rights. This
did not come
out of the
blue, from a
meeting of IP
addressers<br>
in a wonderful
city called
Montevideo. Do
you think Fadi
just dropped
by the<br>
presidential
door in
Brasilia,
knocked and
entered to
sell that
proposal? :)<br>
<br>
Anyway, it is
relevant to
understand
that this is
not a proposal
for yet<br>
another Icann
meeting, or a
reedition of
the UN
chatting space
called IGF,<br>
as both Dilma
and Fadi made
it very clear.
It is a major
achievement
that<br>
that
motivation
brought Icann
to colead this
effort jointly
with BR.<br>
<br>
All the more
so because, as
you know,
there are
strong sectors
within the<br>
government who
would love to
bring the
root-zone to
the purview of
the ITU,<br>
who hate
Icann, who do
not like the
pluriparticipative
model of
governance<br>
we defend, and
who are
basically
associated
with the
transnational
telecom<br>
oligopoly
which controls
the main
networks in
BR.<br>
Dilma is
courageously
up against a
huge wall
here, to
defend those<br>
principles,
and receiving
Fadi and
emerging from
the meeting
with thar<br>
proposal was a
major
political
milestone for
her in those
internal
disputes<br>
as well.<br>
<br>
[] fraterno<br>
<br>
--c.a.<br>
<br>
On 10/10/2013
10:14 AM,
McTim wrote:<br>
> At 55
seconds in,
Fadi says:<br>
> "Her
Excellency
President
Rousseff has
accepted our
invitation
that we<br>
> hold next
year a Global
Summit"<br>
><br>
> Seem
fairly clear
to me.<br>
><br>
> On Thu,
Oct 10, 2013
at 9:10 AM,
Carlos A.
Afonso <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ca@cafonso.ca" target="_blank">ca@cafonso.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
>> McT,
maybe you
should watch
the video a
few times
more... :)<br>
>><br>
>>
--c.a.<br>
>><br>
>> On
10/10/2013
09:57 AM,
McTim wrote:<br>
>>>
On Wed, Oct 9,
2013 at 11:50
PM, michael
gurstein <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
>>>>
Why so
pessimistic
and cynical
everyone.. I
may be wrong
but this<br>
>>>>
isn't just
about ICANN,
although hats
off to Fadi
for getting
this<br>
</div>
</div>
>>>>
going and
putting that
into play.<br>
<div>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>
I'm not
pessimistic or
cynical.<br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>
But I would be
extremely
surprised if
the Pres. of
Brazil is
going<br>
>>>>
to invite the
world to Rio
in April next
year to
discuss names
and<br>
>>>>
numbers.
Rather my
reading is
that she is
by-passing the
quite<br>
>>>>
evident
log-jam at the
ITU, the
frivolities of
the IGF, the
now<br>
>>>>
discredited
"Internet
Freedom"
crusade and
the status quo
which it<br>
</div>
>>>>
was intended
to cast into
concrete errr.
(non) rules
and regs.<br>
<div>
<div>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>
It appears to
me, after
watching the
video again
several times
that<br>
>>>
it is ICANN
(and I assume
the rest of
the
Montevideoans)
that are<br>
>>>
spearheading
this. In
other words
the idea of
the Summit
comes from<br>
>>>
the T&A
folks, not
Brasilia.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
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<div>-- <br>
-- <br>
<br>
Joana Varon
Ferraz<br>
@joana_varon<br>
PGP 0x016B8E73<br>
<br>
<br>
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