<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body ><div>If they meant that, why not say it so? Dilma was far more courageous... ;)</div><div><br></div><div>--c.a.</div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:100%">------------<br>C. A. Afonso</div></div> <br><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Adam Peake <ajp@glocom.ac.jp> <br>Date: 08-10-2013 10:41 (GMT-03:00) <br>To: governance@lists.igcaucus.org,"Carlos A. Afonso" <ca@cafonso.ca> <br>Cc: Ian Peter <ian.peter@ianpeter.com>,Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh@hserus.net> <br>Subject: Re: [governance] "technical community fails at multistakeholderism". really? <br> <br><br>Hi Carlos,<br><br><br>On Oct 8, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Carlos A. Afonso wrote:<br><br>> This sentence is ambiguous: "They expressed strong concern over the undermining of the trust and confidence of Internet users globally due to recent revelations of pervasive monitoring <br>> and surveillance."<br>> <br>> It seems the "leaders" are more concerned by the revelations of surveillance than by surveillance itself.<br>> <br><br><br>Jari Arkko, IETF chair replied to something similar on the IETF discuss list: <br><br>> <br>> From: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko at piuha.net><br>> To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer at nic.fr><br>> Cc: ietf at ietf.org<br>> Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 02:05:09 +0300<br>> > <br>> > This wording is surprising. It looks like it is the revelations that<br>> > undermined confidence, and not the NSA actions. I would prefer<br>> > something like, to avoid shooting the messenger:<br>> <br>> Of course :-) We meant that the loss of privacy causes concern, not the revelations.<br>> <br>> Jari<br>> <br><br>http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg82863.html<br><br>Adam<br><br><br>> --c.a.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ------------<br>> C. A. Afonso<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -------- Original message --------<br>> From: Ian Peter <ian.peter@ianpeter.com> <br>> Date: 08-10-2013 02:51 (GMT-03:00) <br>> To: Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh@hserus.net>,governance@lists.igcaucus.org <br>> Subject: Re: [governance] "technical community fails at multistakeholderism". really? <br>> <br>> <br>> Its interesting to contrast this article with the Montevideo statement <br>> released a little bit later from the technical community. As regards <br>> criticisms of current internet governance structures, the technical <br>> community added<br>> <br>> " The leaders discussed the clear need to continually strengthen and evolve <br>> these mechanisms, in truly substantial ways, to be able to address emerging <br>> issues faced by stakeholders in the Internet."<br>> <br>> Note "in truly substantial ways" - that's not accidental text, but a <br>> recognition that significant change must take place.<br>> <br>> Also note the main statements from Montevideo, which were<br>> <br>> <br>> * They reinforced the importance of globally coherent Internet operations, <br>> and warned against Internet fragmentation at a national level. They <br>> expressed strong concern over the undermining of the trust and confidence of <br>> Internet users globally due to recent revelations of pervasive monitoring <br>> and surveillance.<br>> <br>> *They identified the need for ongoing effort to address Internet Governance <br>> challenges, and agreed to catalyze community-wide efforts towards the <br>> evolution of global multistakeholder Internet cooperation.<br>> <br>> *They called for accelerating the globalization of ICANN and IANA functions, <br>> towards an environment in which all stakeholders, including all governments, <br>> participate on an equal footing.<br>> <br>> (there was also a statement re IPv6)<br>> <br>> I mention these in this context because there appears to be a lot of common <br>> ground with the technical community now as regards some of the big <br>> priorities that must be addressed, and from this statement also a <br>> recognition that they must improve current mechanisms "in truly substantial <br>> ways".<br>> <br>> That's good news! There are things that should be criticised in current <br>> structures, but there is a growing opportunity to work with the technical <br>> community to address some major points of agreement. I hope that in our <br>> discussions of the various viewpoints which legitimately are part of our <br>> thinking on current structures we do not lose the opportunity to work <br>> closely with the technical community on some over riding policy issues on <br>> which we have substantial agreement.<br>> <br>> <br>> Ian Peter<br>> <br>> .<br>> <br>> <br>> -----Original Message----- <br>> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian<br>> Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 3:33 PM<br>> To: governance@lists.igcaucus.org<br>> Subject: [governance] "technical community fails at multistakeholderism". <br>> really?<br>> <br>> http://igfwatch.org/discussion-board/how-the-technical-community-fails-at-multi-stakeholderism<br>> <br>> http://www.digitalnewsasia.com/insights/web-consortiums-failures-show-limits-of-self-regulation<br>> <br>> forming a consensus that the usual splinter rump minority doesnt agree with <br>> emphatically does not constitute any sort of failure of multistakeholderism<br>> <br>> --srs<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> ____________________________________________________________<br>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>> governance@lists.igcaucus.org<br>> To be removed from the list, visit:<br>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing<br>> <br>> For all other list information and functions, see:<br>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance<br>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>> http://www.igcaucus.org/<br>> <br>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t <br>> <br>> <br>> ____________________________________________________________<br>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>> governance@lists.igcaucus.org<br>> To be removed from the list, visit:<br>> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing<br>> <br>> For all other list information and functions, see:<br>> http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance<br>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>> http://www.igcaucus.org/<br>> <br>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t<br><br></body>