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George,<br>
<br>
Agreed. And that would be acting like a professional.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Tom<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/2/2013 4:24 PM, George Sadowsky
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:DB2B48DE-5314-450C-89DD-2F46F63D5B52@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>Thomas,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree with you, but I don't like the idea of singling out
only IGFs for application of this policy. IGFs are like many
other professional meetings, and should be treated as such. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How about this as an alternative? Professional meetings of
any type should be transparent regarding the sources and
processes of resource acquisition for their events and their
other activities.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>George</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>On Aug 2, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Thomas Lowenhaupt wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#CCCCCC"> With regard to bottom
up, I agree that "national and regional IGFs should be able
to make the decisions regarding the nature of their IGFs
that are consistent with the needs an desires of those
countries and regions." But transparency as to the source
and process of resource acquisition should be required to
use the IGF name. <br>
<br>
Tom Lowenhaupt<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/2/2013 12:05 PM, George
Sadowsky wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:F82C6B9F-53AE-44C0-B069-DC7A305E8209@gmail.com"
type="cite">All,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think that national and regional IGFs should be
able to make the decisions regarding the nature of their
IGFs that are consistent with the needs an desires of
those countries and regions. The IGF is not a franchise
operation within which the top can dictate the behavior
of the smaller meetings presumably feeding into it.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In fact, it would be more appropriate if
representatives of those smaller meetings agreed upon
the policies associated with the global IGF, not the
other way around. This should not be a top down
operation. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The reason that the "no commercial recognition"
policy applies to the global IGF is that it is a UN
sponsord meetng, and therefore UN rules apply. This
is not true for regional and national IGFs.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Note that I am not saying anything about the
desirability or non-desirability of such a policy at
lower levels, but rather that it is their decision to
make on an individual basis, not a decision or even a
recommendation that should be made at a global level. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Aug 2, 2013, at 5:49 PM, parminder wrote:</div>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 02
August 2013 02:09 PM, Grace Githaiga wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:DUB111-W25940058518B321D4F8B6BB4510@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
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<div dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(68,
68, 68); font-size: 15px; line-height:
21px;">"Can one now expect that this is
also made a basic condition for regional
and national IGFs, among some basic
conditions that are listed for such
initiatives, and these conditions are
enforced". </span><br>
<br>
<br>
Parminder, can you clarify on this
sentence?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In my opinion, I do not think that
this is a sound proposal to start
imposing conditions on say national
IGFs. Is multistakeholdersim not about
getting all stakeholders on board to
discuss these issues? For example if say
Kenya is holding the Kenya IGF and a
telco company decides it will put in
money since it has been part of the
process, should that not be accepted? At
KICTANet, we have a multistakeholder
model that brings even the corporate
stakeholders on board, NOT necessarily
to influence the IGF but as partners.
Further, different national IGFs have
different models of fundraising. What
works in Kenya may not work in say
Tanzania. Kindly clarify. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Grace,<br>
<br>
Happy to clarify. <br>
<br>
First of all, it should be clear that I only
seek that those conditions be made applicable
to national and regional IGFs that many of us
here ( as also the UN IGF MAG Chair and
others) agree that it is appropriate and
necessary to apply to the UN IGF.<br>
<br>
Inter alia, such conditions are that while
private companies can donate money to the IGF,
which goes into a trust fund, all measures
will be taken to ensure that there is not the
least possibility of any quid pro quo at all
for these donations, including providing
positions on the MAG, giving speaking/
chairing slots, special recommendations for
speaking slots, special invitations to what
could otherwise be selectively closed
high-level (policy related) meetings, logos
in and around the spaces where actual policy
deliberation takes place, and so on.... <br>
<br>
Do you indeed disagree with my position,
whereby do you think that these above
conditions, with regard to policy spaces,
that democratic propriety demands UN IGF must
observe, should not be made applicable to
national or regional IGFs? <br>
<br>
Before I go on, I just want to make sure that
I really understand what you are saying here,
and you understand my position.<br>
<br>
parminder<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:DUB111-W25940058518B321D4F8B6BB4510@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Rgds</div>
<div>GG<br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Fri, 2 Aug
2013 09:38:55 +0530<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [governance] Update from
today's MAG call<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="Verdana">Kudos to Markus
for making a such clear affirmative
statement on the isuue of
commercialisation of IGF..</font>....
And for also having strongly
disapproved of the Indonesian fund
raising document/ strategy in February
itself, and for asking the local
organising team to discontinue it and
take the document off their website.
To make things clear in such strong
words is really good " the only thing
that can be sold on the premises of
the UN meeting is food, and that has
to be at a reasonable price".<br>
<br>
Can one now expect that this is also
made a basic condition for regional
and national IGFs, among some basic
conditions that are listed for such
initiatives, and these conditions are
enforced. Safeguarding policy spaces
from commercial/ corporatist
influences is as important at regional
and national levels as at the global
level.<br>
<br>
As mentioned earlier, I remain rather
concerned that the Chair of Asia
Pacific IGF called the provisions in
the controversial Indonesian IGF fund
raising document as, and I quote<br>
<br>
".....providing some traditional
"value" back to contributors. The deal
is nothing new - it seems to be a
rather standard sponsorship
arrangement."<br>
<br>
If indeed it was a rather standard
sponsorship document, why did then the
MAG Chair disapprove of it and ask for
its withdrawal? <br>
<br>
I am not sure therefore how they do it
at the AP IGF, but I do see enough
reason to be concerned about it. If
any clarification in this regard is to
be forthcoming, I would welcome it.<br>
<br>
There seems to be a consdierable lack
of clarity about what the IGFs - as a
somewhat formal (and therefore, and to
that extent, monopolistic) 'policy
dialogue space' and a new
insitutionalised form of
'participation in governance' and a
new experiment in participative
democracy - mean and how they must be
organised, and strongly insulated from
private interests. And for this sake,
one need to be almost paranoidly
pro-active rather than being slack and
accommodative. Insitutions of
democracy are built with such extreme
care and caution, and being stickler
to basic norms.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix">On
Wednesday 31 July 2013 06:32 PM,
Norbert Bollow wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20130731150238.1afbe786@quill">
<pre>Here's a quick update from today's MAG call (I listened in as an
observer.)
Almost all of the discussion was around how to proceed in regard to
2013 IGF meeting. Markus said that cancellation is not an option. There
are two serious expressions of interest from potential host countries
to step in on short notice if Bali doesn't work out. Failing that,
there's the option of having the meeting at the relevant UN HQ, which
for the IGF would mean Geneva, but since it might be difficult to get
so many rooms, that might mean that only a scaled down meeting could be
held. Also hotel rooms can be problematic in Geneva. Google/Vint Cerf is
willing to do a fundraising effort to try and save the Bali IGF. Some
preliminary news, on the basis of which the MAG might be able to
recommend something, is hoped for by the end of next week.
The current recommendation is not to cancel flights to Bali that have
already been booked, but also not to book a flight to Bali if you have
not booked yet.
The commercialization problem was only touched on briefly. Markus said
that the basic rules are fairly simple: UN meetings cannot be
commercialized, there can be no sponsor's logos on the premises of the
UN meeting (and this rule has been enforced, he gave an example where a
compromise had been made in which sponsor's banners were put up outside
the premises of the UN meeting but in a place where they were visible
from the meeting's cafeteria), the only thing that can be sold on the
premises of the UN meeting is food and that has to be at a reasonable
price.
So it seems clear that the IGF is not in direct danger of getting
commercialized - that objectionable Indonesian fundraising strategy has
simply been declared dead.
Greetings,
Norbert
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
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