<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I think this is an example of an entity seeing the value of the IGF and looking for positive ways to contribute. It also gives a sense of the financing aspects of the Indonesian IGF albeit incomplete and highlights how we can try to address the challenges.</div><div><br></div><div><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Jul 27, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <<a href="mailto:jeremy@ciroap.org">jeremy@ciroap.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1">Forwarding with permission. Let's not dismiss these recommendations by dint of where they come from. I would like to see us discussing and supporting them if appropriate.<br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Patrick Ryan <<a href="mailto:patrickryan@google.com">patrickryan@google.com</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: [Internet Policy] IGF Bali</b><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">27 July 2013 12:56:37 PM GMT+08:00<br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">"Smith, Bill" <<a href="mailto:bill.smith@paypal-inc.com">bill.smith@paypal-inc.com</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Cc: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">"<a href="mailto:internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org">internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org">internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org</a>><br></span></div><br><div dir="ltr">Dear all,<div><br></div><div>As many of you know, the budget and funding issue has been a pet project of mine since February, and has been quite intense since I joined the MAG in May. It's a frustrating process because the way that the UN accounts for projects is not standard (they don't use GAAP accounting, for example), it's obscure, and the details are limited to donors. This makes it really complicated: there's no way to attract donors unless there is transparency, and even when one becomes a donor, there is still much to be desired. I'll spare further soap-boxing on this point for another day, but offer some of the following facts for the community. I don't claim to understand all of this nor have any of us verified them, but at this point sharing them is the only thing that I can see as a path towards resolution. We have two concrete asks that we think can be helpful.</div>
<div><b><br></b></div><div><b>#1, Request for ID-IGF: tell us what number is needed.</b> </div><div>The organization in Indonesia that is now sponsoring the IGF is ID-IGF, and their fundraising <a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BylRrf_lFlA9OXhieGt5WUJsMkU/edit" target="_blank">brochure is here</a>. It's actually a $2m total figure (although we've also heard $2.5), but the source for the $2m number is on p. 8 ("The overall fundraising target for hosting the IGF in 2013 is USD $1,966,560.20") There are certainly many things that can be reduced, as Vint mentions.<i> Thus, we ask ID-IGF to provide us with a bottom-line number on what they need to raise to move forward.</i></div>
<div><b><br></b></div><div><b>#2, Request for UNDESA: clear the path for Tides. </b> As of right now, if any individual wants to fund the IGF, they need an individual contract with UNDESA to do so. That is a complicated process and does not scale (it took Google more than six months to negotiate the contract last year). While crowdsourcing would be wonderful, it's completely impossible. We have a proposed solution, but it is stalled. We propose working with <a href="http://Tides.org">Tides.org</a>, a non-profit that can aggregate funds. Through Tides, we could set up a simple website and crowdsource. <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x9qkyvKcIr8acXahMXHf-WI3MeaWlKLahFVYMSGJpgw/edit" target="_blank">Here is my email about Tides</a> as sent to donors and MAG in Feb and in May, and <a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BylRrf_lFlA9WUtncWlrc192Y1U/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank">here the actual Tides proposal</a> that Tides sent to the IGF. <b> </b><i>Our request to UNDESA: clear the path for the Tides proposal so that crowdsourcing can be enabled (UNDESA and Tides have met various times and have exchanged documents, but after five months, it is still open, but should be able to wrap quickly).</i></div>
<div><b><br></b></div><div><b>#3, Request for UNDESA: share the budget details with the community. </b>We've asked many times for more transparency in the budget, as noted above. I've documented this request with UN officials as well. It's crucial and not at all controversial in government entities, and it's fundamental to create trust and attract further donors. We've asked UNDESA to share that and think it's important that it be acted upon. <i> Request for UNDESA: share the overall budget details on the IGF with the community, both for the IGF activities and for in-country budgets. </i></div>
<div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">These requests are straightforward but we'll need the community to support us if you agree.</div>
</div><div> </div><div style="">Patrick</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr">------<br><div><b><font color="#ff0000">patrick ryan </font></b></div><div>public policy & gov't relations sr. counsel, free expression and int'l relations</div>
<div><span><a href="mailto:patrickryan@google.com" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">patrickryan@google.com</a> |</span><span> <a value="+15127515346" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">+1.512.751.5346</a></span></div>
</div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Smith, Bill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bill.smith@paypal-inc.com" target="_blank">bill.smith@paypal-inc.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>... and I don't believe we have ever been able to get what in business we might call a reasonable budget. Large-scale events like the IGF are expensive and a figure of 2.5mm USD is not unreasonable. I can also state the 900k USD figure for UN "security
and support" is in line with estimates I have hear bandied about. I have also been told that those costs are unavoidable for a UN event.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I, and I expect many others, would consider an attendance fee quite acceptable. Of course there will be issues that would have to be addressed but they are manageable. Perhaps tomorrow will be a better day.</div><div>
<div class="h5">
<div><br>
On Jul 26, 2013, at 7:23 PM, "Vint Cerf" <<a href="mailto:vint@google.com" target="_blank">vint@google.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">the numbers i have are not quite that favorable. I have been told the target is $2.5M and that the Indonesian ISP Alliance has raised $900K of that leaving a shortfall of $1.6M. I don't have adequate breakout to know what is included in these
figures. In Azerbaijan, the government apparently tried to pay for all the food and maybe we could ask the attendees to pay an attendance fee to cover that? Until there is more clarity as to out of pocket expense for the venue, networking, other services,
it will be hard to raise funds, I think.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>v</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:apisan@unam.mx" target="_blank">apisan@unam.mx</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Wyn,<br>
<br>
the consideration that good and trusted friend Peng Hwa conveys is contained (having read him) in my question re unreasonable demands by the UN - and it sure looks like one!<br>
<br>
It's very tempting to second-guess what is going on, it's sure the full truth may never out, there does seem to be a lot of mischief and games going on... so let's keep a watchful eye.<br>
<br>
One sure thing we will need to do is more transparency in the use of this kind of funds and to understand whether such a bill can be justified and accepted at all. Keep in mind for the right time.<br>
<div><br>
Yours,<br>
<br>
Alejandro Pisanty<br>
<br>
<br>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
Facultad de Química UNAM<br>
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
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Desde: <a href="mailto:internetpolicy-bounces@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">internetpolicy-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a> [<a href="mailto:internetpolicy-bounces@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">internetpolicy-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>] en nombre de Winthrop Yu [<a href="mailto:w.yu@gmx.net" target="_blank">w.yu@gmx.net</a>]<br>
Enviado el: viernes, 26 de julio de 2013 18:17<br>
Hasta: <a href="mailto:internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org</a><br>
<div>Asunto: Re: [Internet Policy] IGF Bali<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div> In that vein Dr. Alejandro, the numbers show that the Indonesian organizers<br>
had already successfully raised US$1.15M, a not insubstantial amount. Yes,<br>
there is still a shortfall of US$1.05M. But it seems to me that without that<br>
single $900K expense item (mentioned by Prof. Ang below), then the Indons are<br>
already very close (only $105K remaining) to meeting their target budget?<br>
<br>
WYn<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
> From: *Ang Peng Hwa (Prof)* <TPHANG@... <mailto:<a href="mailto:TPHANG@" target="_blank">TPHANG@</a>...<br>
> Date: 26 July 2013 08:50<br>
> Subject: [Rigf_program] IGF in Indonesia cancelled<br>
> To: "program@... <mailto:<a href="mailto:program@" target="_blank">program@</a>..." <program@...<br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:program@" target="_blank">program@</a>...<br>
><br>
><br>
> Folks,<br>
><br>
> This is sad but official: the Indonesian organizers have cancelled the IGF.<br>
> The announcement was made by the chair of the organizing committee (a<br>
> businessman) after a meeting with the minister and the civil society group.<br>
><br>
> There is a news report in Bahasa Indonesia at<br>
><br>
<a href="http://inet.detik.com/read/2013/07/25/135130/2314218/328/kurang-dana-forum-internet-dunia-batal-digelar-di-bali" target="_blank">http://inet.detik.com/read/2013/07/25/135130/2314218/328/kurang-dana-forum-internet-dunia-batal-digelar-di-bali</a>.<br>
<br>
><br>
> Use Google translate and you will be able to read.<br>
><br>
> I had met the civil society organizers just this week. They were asking for<br>
> possible tips on fund raising. After exploring the options, we concluded that<br>
> they had approached most of the likely sponsors. Yes, there were some<br>
> possibilities they had overlooked but these were not many.<br>
><br>
> According to the news report, out of the US$2.2M (Rp22 billion) budget, they<br>
> had raised US$900k. The Ministry had given US$250k. So they had a shortfall of<br>
> US$1.05M.<br>
><br>
> Third party sources I checked (i.e. Not the Indonesians themselves) said that<br>
> one major cost was that the UN had asked for US$900k to fly personnel and<br>
> security apparatus to the meeting.<br>
><br>
> Knowing a little of the inside story, I would say the situation is more<br>
> complex than one might have guessed. Next year is the election year for<br>
> Indonesia. So companies are asking: if I support you now but you do not win,<br>
> what happens? Then two weeks before the IGF, there is the APEC meeting in the<br>
> same venue. So the feeling that is Indonesia will be on the world's stage at<br>
> that time already. Meanwhile, the Minister of Communication, whose ministry<br>
> oversees the IGF, is under allegations of corruption. It's one of those series<br>
> of unfortunate events.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> Peng Hwa<br>
><br>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/27/2013 4:12 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:<br>
> Hi all,<br>
><br>
> for all I know ISOC and ICANN already make substantial monetary contributions to<br>
> the IGF, in different forms. They have been key all over the years.<br>
><br>
> I am glad to see that Google is making a commitment of the right size - enough<br>
> of a fraction of the total cost to be significant, a real commitment, and also<br>
> leaving enough space for others to co-own the sustainability of the IGF.<br>
><br>
> I regret that this situation can also be seen as a victory for extortion -<br>
> parties not honoring their initial expected commitments finding someone to pay<br>
> for that - and think that we will need to understand the details better (was the<br>
> UN demanding too much or something unfair? were the parties in Indonesia missing<br>
> their targets?) in order to judge and to manage this into the future.<br>
><br>
> It remains to be seen whether the extortion worked, or an honest deal is<br>
> stricken, in Indonesia or elsewhere, and the result will help distill who is<br>
> actually committed to an open IGF and who may be not so. Certainly Google's<br>
> contribution has to be welcomed and one would hope that it starts a sort of<br>
> bidding process in which parties compete to complete the support the ITF needs.<br>
> Much remains to be sorted out.<br>
><br>
> But it is undeniable good news that there is a way to provide sustainability to<br>
> the IGF from a multistakeholder set of contributions, and for now I'll reserve<br>
> all other judgment and celebrate!<br>
><br>
> Yours,<br>
><br>
> Alejandro Pisanty<br>
><br>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
> Facultad de Química UNAM<br>
> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
><br>
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>--</div><div>Jeremy Malcolm PhD LLB (Hons) B Com</div><div>Internet and Open Source lawyer, consumer advocate and geek</div><div>host -t NAPTR 5.9.8.5.2.8.2.2.1.0.6.<a href="http://e164.org">e164.org</a>|awk -F! '{print $3}'</div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; 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orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">-- </span><br style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><p style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><b>Dr Jeremy Malcolm<br>Senior Policy Officer<br>Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers</b><br>Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East<br>Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia<br>Tel: +60 3 7726 1599</p><p style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "></p><p style="font-size: 9pt; "><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Explore our new Resource Zone - the global consumer movement knowledge hub |</span><a href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/news-and-media/resource-zone" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">http://www.consumersinternational.org/news-and-media/resource-zone</a></p><p></p><p style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">@Consumers_Int | <a href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/">www.consumersinternational.org</a> | <a href="http://www.facebook.com/consumersinternational">www.facebook.com/consumersinternational</a></p><p style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(153, 153, 153); ">Read our <a href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality" target="_blank">email confidentiality notice</a>. 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