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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 26 July 2013 10:41 AM, Nick
Ashton-Hart wrote:<br>
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--></style>There is a standard fee that is part of convening any UN
meeting to cover the costs of UN staff organising it, as well as
those things.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
we should fight for efficiencies in this regard... there are ways to
do it. <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:c912da63-2088-41ef-b355-37d1065e75f1@email.android.com"
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<br>
Cutting the UN connection is, to my way of thinking, an incredibly
bad idea on pretty much every level - without the IGF the UN has
no standing meeting to discuss Internet governance per se. This
would create a vacuum and that vacuum would be filled - and if any
of you think it would be filled with a more or even equally
multi-stakeholder forum, there's a proverbial bridge in Brooklyn
you may wish to buy; contact me offlist to make arrangements to
take possession and transfer funds ;)<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Nick, I was impressed by the start you made of declaring that the
idea to cut the UN connection of the IGF was a bad one..... But then
I realised that you have a negative rather than a positive case for
a UN based IGF... Not to see and value the IGF for what it does, but
for what it prevents from happening.... I know a lot of people see
the IGF primarily as such a thing, and this is so so
disappointing.... I have sat with a lot of people who just drop in
at MAG meetings, and sitting through a day wonder what the hell is
going on here.... and I give them the same response - mostly in
confidence - the problem is, I tell them, that most/ many people
here are not interested in seeing what the IGF can do, they are
interested in propping the IG to prevent 'other things' from
happening.... which is why there is so less prositive energy, drive
and motivation in the proceedings.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
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<div class="gmail_quote">parminder
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"><parminder@itforchange.net></a> wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
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padding-left: 1ex;"> <br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 26 July 2013 10:16 AM,
Jeremy Malcolm wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:51F1FF26.1060106@ciroap.org" type="cite">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/07/13 12:34, parminder
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:51F1FC73.4010709@itforchange.net"
type="cite"> <br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 26 July 2013 09:16
AM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:51F1F10A.7020703@ciroap.org"
type="cite">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/07/13 11:31, Ang Peng
Hwa (Prof) wrote:<br>
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<div class="WordSection1"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0F243E">According
to third party sources I asked, ie not the
Indonesians, one major item that added to the cost
is that the UN had apparently asked for US$900k to
fly personnel and security equipment for the
event. </span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Time to cut the UN apron strings.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Why sure, we can check with Google. They will be quite
happy to run the global internet policy dialogue.... It is
most astounding that after subverting and ditching the
tradition of strictly public funding for policy spaces and
activities, and adopting the neoliberal and
anti-democratic (and fancy) multistakeholder funding
model, now that it has collapsed one is to blame the
public systems for it.... <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
But $900k is ridiculous,</blockquote>
<br>
Yes, we consider looking at local security detail etc.... but
we in developing countries are quite aware of how whispers of
inefficiency, corruption etc are used deviously to discredit
public systems, which is not to say that they should not be
improved, and internal efficiencies cannot be sought... Lets
get down to seeing how this figure of $900, if it is true, -
and I know the power of rightfully placed rumours - can be
brought down. That is a different talk...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51F1FF26.1060106@ciroap.org" type="cite">
and given that a lot of the obstruction of the IGF has come
from UNOG (funding constraints, censorship, Secretariat-led
policy direction), other options have to be considered. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Again, similar standard 'logics' against public system. Beyond
a point one cannot keep responding to them. BTW, it is the
'multistakeholders' that were strictly against UN based stable
funding for the IGF during the proceedings of the WG on IGF
improvements , and what censorship are you talking about.....
and dont know what you mean by secretariat -led policy, which
secretariat BTW is now led by an ISOC appointed and paid
person....... <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51F1FF26.1060106@ciroap.org" type="cite">We
have WTO, ISO, etc as intergovernmental organisations that
are notionally separate from the UN, so why not the IGF as
well</blockquote>
<br>
No problem for it to be notionally separate from anywhere,
till it remains a public system and not corporate driven...
(there is a limit to which the multistakeholder front for
corporate control can be employed)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51F1FF26.1060106@ciroap.org" type="cite">
- a free-standing international multi-stakeholder
conference. This is independent of the question of how it
is funded</blockquote>
<br>
Sorry to say, that it must take extreme political naivete -
and I know you arent politically naive - to say that what a
policy space is and does is "independent of the the question
of how it is funded".... There is lots of lots of literature,
norms as well as legal frameworks with regard to democratic
political systems that deal with precisely this connection....
and this connection is universally seen as very strong and
important to always be mindful of. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51F1FF26.1060106@ciroap.org" type="cite">
- but it's clear there will be no funding flowing from the
UN anyway, </blockquote>
<br>
give the dog a bad name and then hang it... Starve the UN of
funds, dont allow the IGF improvement working group to decide
on UN funding for the IGF and then use the argument 'there
anyway isnt going to be any flow of funding from the UN'....
Doesnt work.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51F1FF26.1060106@ciroap.org" type="cite">so
I don't see how cutting the UN loose would make the
situation worse.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
If you are intent on not seeing how corporate controlled
policy spaces will be lot worse than where we are today, I
really cannot do much about it...<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51F1FF26.1060106@ciroap.org" type="cite">
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<p style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black"><b>Dr Jeremy
Malcolm<br>
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