<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>For better or for worse, the issue is not whether they would be precluded.</div><div><br></div><div>The question - all along - has been whether governments will choose, by their presence, to legitimize the activity. And perhaps one day give it some place in the policy firmament, beyond being a talk shop.</div><div><br></div><div>When it may be taken - as independent, as proposed - away from nominal government tutelage, such as a governmental convener, this year Indonesia, and away from the UN ... then it becomes all those civil society types. And perhaps their corporate sponsons, with their private business agendas. They can talk all they want. To whatever end they may enjoy hearing, among themselves ...</div><div><br></div><div>David</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Jul 26, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Deirdre Williams wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">However - weighing in with Jeremy and Ginger - I don't see that having the meeting online would necessarily preclude the attendance of governments?<div>Deirdre<br><div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"> <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 26 July 2013 11:37, David Allen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:David_Allen_AB63@post.harvard.edu" target="_blank">David_Allen_AB63@post.harvard.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>The desire to 'go independent' is always understandable.</div><div><br></div><div>However.</div><div><br></div><div>A, if not the, IGF challenge has been to get serious engagement by governments, and most all governments. Since governments hold the power, such engagement is fundamental - without it, IGF is effectively window dressing on the policy process.</div> <div><br></div><div>To 'go independent' virtually assures no prospect for serious, more-or-less across the board, government engagement. So no 'multi' in the multi-stakeholder. At least not that - essential - multi.</div> <div><br></div><div>Said with - nonetheless - full appreciation for all that Jeremy and Ginger bring to the work.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>David</div></font></span><div><div class="h5"> <div><br></div><br><div><div>On Jul 26, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Ginger Paque wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Jeremy said:<br>Alternatively it could be time for the IGF to be reimagined in purely online form. At least that would ensure that more attention is given to the remote participation experience.<br> <br></div>YES, Jeremy: it's time! I suggested this in today's MAG meeting, but there was not time to address the possibility. I do hope it is given serious consideration.<br> <br></div>gp<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"> <br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:start;font-style:normal;display:inline!important;font-weight:normal;float:none;line-height:normal;color:rgb(34,34,34);text-transform:none;font-size:13px;white-space:normal;font-family:arial,sans-serif;word-spacing:0px">Ginger (Virginia) Paque</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"> <span style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:start;font-style:normal;display:inline!important;font-weight:normal;float:none;line-height:normal;color:rgb(34,34,34);text-transform:none;font-size:13px;white-space:normal;font-family:arial,sans-serif;word-spacing:0px">IG Programmes, DiploFoundation</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"> <br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"> <font style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" size="1"><i><b>The latest from Diplo...</b></i> </font><font style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" size="1"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica"><span style="font-style:italic"><i><i>Upcoming online courses in Internet governance: Master in Contemporary Diplomacy with Internet Governance specialisation, Critical Internet Resources and Infrastructure, ICT Policy and Strategic Planning, and Privacy and Personal Data Protection. </i><i>Read more and apply at <a href="http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(35,71,162)">http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses</span></a></i></i></span></span></font><div> <span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;min-height:16px"></span><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;min-height:16px"></span><span style="padding-right:16px;width:16px;min-height:16px"></span><div> <i></i><br><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><b><i><span style="font-size:10pt"></span></i></b></span></div></span></div></div></div> <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 25 July 2013 22:44, Jeremy Malcolm <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jeremy@ciroap.org" target="_blank">jeremy@ciroap.org</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <div>On 26/07/13 11:37, <a href="mailto:genekimmelman@gmail.com" target="_blank">genekimmelman@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> I imagine other governments that really want the event to proceed will now weigh in to help<br> </blockquote> <br> If not, then it will really confirm the contempt with which the IGF is held as a process. There are Silicon Valley parties that have cost more than the IGF's $1.05M shortfall.<br> <br> Alternatively it could be time for the IGF to be reimagined in purely online form. At least that would ensure that more attention is given to the remote participation experience.<br> <br> <div>-- <br><p style="font-size:9.0pt"><b>Dr Jeremy Malcolm<br> Senior Policy Officer<br> Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers</b><br> Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East<br> Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia<br> Tel: <a href="tel:%2B60%203%207726%201599" value="+60377261599" target="_blank">+60 3 7726 1599</a></p><p style="font-size:9.0pt"> Explore our new Resource Zone - the global consumer movement knowledge hub | <a href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/news-and-media/resource-zone" target="_blank">http://www.consumersinternational.org/news-and-media/resource-zone</a></p><p style="font-size:9.0pt">@Consumers_Int | <a href="http://www.consumersinternational.org" target="_blank">www.consumersinternational.org</a> | <a href="http://www.facebook.com/consumersinternational" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/consumersinternational</a></p><p style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#999999">Read our <a href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality" target="_blank">email confidentiality notice</a>. 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