<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Yes Parminder and others<div><br></div><div>Yes the Patriot Act target all "US enterprises", where ever then operate.... <br><div><br><div>Some other ideas...</div><div>Is it "fair" that a State "cares" (accesses or other) about data which have no other territorial link than passing through it ? without any legal cooperation with the State which has the territorial link with the activity at stake?</div><div><br></div><div>Would it be interesting to use those parts of the following commercial cases (which are still not satisfactory from other angles than those quoted bellow)</div><div>- Years ago (in the 90s), in the case of Galileo (a System for Information Reservation "SIR") which servers were transferred from UK to East of US, along with the data territory location theory, US asked that no flight to Cuba could be on the server (because it was forbidden to fly from USA to to Cuba...). </div><div>Once it was established that no flight from US to Cuba could be matter of seat's reservation , the US government accepted that data on flights to Cuba (from elsewhere than USA) could remain in the servers (with the aim of air companies and agencies offering seats reservation from elsewhere than USA).......</div><div>At that time there was no question about getting PNR's data by US...and further when US requested the PNR data, EU negotiated that any how the data on persons not going to USA could not be accessed from EU Air companies through System of air reservation. It also asked that the data on persons going to US should be pushed by the system to US authorities and not be pulled (directly accessed to by those authorities)</div><div><br></div><div>- After the SWIFT case was revealed, EU took back to a european country the servers/back up on which are processed the financial transactions not having a link with US</div><div><br></div><div>There is a "legal" activity on electronic war going on around US and NATO...<a href="http://www.nowandfutures.com/large/Tallinn-Manual-on-the-International-Law-Applicable-to-Cyber-Warfare-Draft-.pdf">http://www.nowandfutures.com/large/Tallinn-Manual-on-the-International-Law-Applicable-to-Cyber-Warfare-Draft-.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div>Not yet any such international initiative on world electronic surveillance nor on drones (either for surveillance or to kill... </div><div>We cannot go on like this...</div><div>Marie</div><div><div><div><br></div><div>Le 24 juin 2013 à 14:29, parminder a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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Hi All<br>
<br>
There was some demand on the bestbits list that we still need to
ask a lot of questions from the involved companies in terms of the
recent PRISM plus disclosures. We are being too soft on them. I
refuse to believe that everything they did was forced upon on
them. Apart from the fact that there are <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-14/u-s-agencies-said-to-swap-data-with-thousands-of-firms.html">news
reports</a> that US based tech companies regularly share data
with US gov for different kinds of favours in return, or even
simply motivated by nationalistic feeling, we should not forget
that many of these companies have strong political agenda which
are closely associated with that of the US gov. You must all
know about '<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Ideas">Google Ideas</a>',
its revolving doors with US gov's security apparatus, and its own
aggressive <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34535.htm">regime
change ideas</a>. Facebook also is known to 'like' some things,
say in MENA region, and not other things in the same region.....<br>
<br>
<font face="Verdana">Firstly, one would want to know </font>whether
the obligations to share data with US government extended only to
such data that is actually located in, or flows, through, the US.
Or, does it extend to all data within the legal control/ ownership
of these companies wherever it may reside. (I think, certainly
hope, it must be the former, but still I want to be absolutely
sure, and hear directly from these companies.)<br>
<br>
Now, if the obligation was to share only such data that actually
resided in servers inside the US, why did these companies, in face
of what was obviously very broad and intrusive demands for sharing
data about non US citizens, not simply locate much of such data
outside the US. For instance, it could pick up the top 10
countries, the data of whose citizens was repeatedly sought by US
authorities, and shift all their data to servers in other
countries that made no such demand? Now, we know that many of the
involved companies have set up near fictitious companies
headquartered in strange places for the purpose of tax avoidance/
evasion. Why could they not do for the sake of protecting human
rights, well, lets only say, the trust, of non US citizens/
consumers, what they so very efficiently did for enhancing their
bottom-lines? <br>
<br>
Are there any such plan even now? While I can understand that
there can be some laws to force a company to hold the data of
citizens of a country within its border, there isnt any law which
can force these companies to hold foreign data within a country's
borders... Or would any such act perceived to be too unfriendly an
act by the US gov?<br>
<br>
<br>
I am sure others may have other questions to ask these
companies.....<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
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