<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>More worryingly, I have found neimoller's great words often sadly cheapened by dragging them into any debate at all about a government's actions. Possibly in effect comparing said government to the evil regime that targeted him and everybody else in his poem?</div><div><br>--srs (iPad)</div><div><br>On 11-Jun-2013, at 0:03, Deirdre Williams <<a href="mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com">williams.deirdre@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Dear Riaz,<div style="">My response was intended to speak to Kerry's comment:</div><div style=""><div class="" style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><table cellpadding="0" class=""><tbody></tbody></table>
</div><div id=":2c9" class="" style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><div id=":2c8" style="overflow:hidden"><br>.... We are a community that is made up of communities. Many people have their fingers in many communities. There is a lot of overlap. Trying to reduce every conversation to sides is not useful and only causes division when we should be seeking unification and consensus.<br>
<span class=""><br><font color="#000000">"They" are real experts at divide and rule; if "we" allow ourselves to be divided, we will be ruled for sure.</font></span></div><div id=":2c8" style="overflow:hidden">
<span class=""><font color="#000000"><br></font></span></div><div id=":2c8" style="overflow:hidden"><span class=""><font color="#000000">You quote from Martin Niemoller </font><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller</a> </span></div>
<div id=":2c8" style="overflow:hidden"><span class="">In the context of your reply I find this a little strange, because I have always understood Niemoller's words to be one of the great human appeals to unity and solidarity and responsibility to one's fellow human beings.</span></div>
<div id=":2c8" style="overflow:hidden"><span class=""><br></span></div><div id=":2c8" style="overflow:hidden"><span class="">Best wishes</span></div><div id=":2c8" style="overflow:hidden"><span class="">Deirdre<br><br></span></div>
</div></div><div style=""><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 10 June 2013 12:29, Riaz K Tayob <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:riaz.tayob@gmail.com" target="_blank">riaz.tayob@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
It is Sisyphean task. <br>
<br>
But please let us avoid revisionism. We need to test the veracity
and politics of colleagues on this list and see if they have been
justified in taking the positions they do.<br>
<br>
Cream rises to the top, but crap also floats unfortunately. So let
us not be too hasty in calls for unity. The wheat needs to be
separated from the chaff. After all nothing like reality or evidence
to do this job. After all, you all are anti-American by doing this
by some definitions of the term on this list. And let us not forget
that the people pushing these views have had inordinate play on this
list so they have to reap what they have sown, and be graded by
their perspicacity. On this issue in this space, slow is better.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote style="float:none;padding:10px 15px 10px 15px;display:table">
<p>First they came for the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist" title="Socialist" target="_blank">socialists</a>,<br>
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.</p>
<p>Then they came for the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_unionist" title="Trade unionist" target="_blank">trade unionists</a>,<br>
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.</p>
<p>Then they came for the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews" title="Jews" target="_blank">Jews</a>,<br>
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.</p>
<p>Then they came for me,<br>
and there was no one left to speak for me.</p>
</blockquote><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<br>
<div>On 2013/06/10 06:50 PM, Deirdre
Williams wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">From a practical point of view this is a bad time
to show fractures within the civil society group.
<div>Many (most??) of us have formally identified ourselves as
"civil society". If this means anything at all it means that
we hold some values in common.</div>
<div>If we all push together at the same boulder - who knows? -
we might even be able to get it to the top of the hill without
its rolling down and squashing us.</div>
<div>Although since stone-rolling was the punishment
for deceit this may not be the best image to use in the
context. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus</a></div>
<div>Or perhaps like Camus we "must imagine Sisyphus
happy" and keep on struggling.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus</a></div>
<div>
Deirdre</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 10 June 2013 10:37, Kerry Brown <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kerry@kdbsystems.com" target="_blank">kerry@kdbsystems.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I don't
know if this counts as the "technical community" but it does
provide a plausible technical scenario.<br>
<br>
As an aside I am really getting tired of the us vs. them
conversations. We are a community that is made up of
communities. Many people have their fingers in many
communities. There is a lot of overlap. Trying to reduce
every conversation to sides is not useful and only causes
division when we should be seeking unification and
consensus.<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
Kerry Brown<br>
<br>
</font></span><br>
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</div>
-- <br>
“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge"
Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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</blockquote>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979
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