<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>OK<br><br>--srs (iPad)</div><div><br>On 09-Jun-2013, at 7:59, Lee W McKnight <<a href="mailto:lmcknigh@syr.edu">lmcknigh@syr.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div><span></span></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<div id="divRpF81090" style="DIRECTION: ltr"><font color="#000000" size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] on behalf of Kerry Brown [<a href="mailto:kerry@kdbsystems.com">kerry@kdbsystems.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 08, 2013 9:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [governance] Re: Revised Draft IGC Statement #DRM in HTML5<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Kerry Brown</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro<br>
<b>Sent:</b> June-08-13 3:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Deirdre Williams<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Adam Peake; <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Catherine Roy<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Re: Revised Draft IGC Statement #DRM in HTML5</span></p>
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This looks great, what do others think?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sala<br>
Sent from my iPad</p>
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On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:38 AM, Deirdre Williams <<a href="mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com" target="_blank">williams.deirdre@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This is the text we are suggesting.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus (IGC) endorses and supports the formal objection lodged by the <span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #500050">Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #500050"><</span><a href="https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg" target="_blank"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg</span></a><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #500050">></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">We believe that the inclusion of digital rights management (DRM) in HTML5 has the potential to stifle innovation and seriously compromise the rights of end users; for these
reasons particularly, we object to the inclusion of DRM in HTML5.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #500050">We fully endorse the arguments raised by the EFF in their statement "EFF's Formal Objection to the HTML WG Draft Charter" </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #500050"><</span><a href="https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg" target="_blank"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg</span></a><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #500050">></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #500050">Deirdre</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 8 June 2013 16:41, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <<a href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com" target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good Point Adam and Deirdre, let's try and get a text to reflect the recently proposed changes.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Kind Regards,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sala</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 6:36 AM, Adam Peake <<a href="mailto:ajp@glocom.ac.jp" target="_blank">ajp@glocom.ac.jp</a>> wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Catherine's and Deirdre's proposed changes are excellent. If we were<br>
in a formal process they'd be a welcome friendly amendment. I suggest<br>
we proceed noting support for EFF's position and this revised<br>
sentence.<br>
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Best,<br>
<br>
Adam</p>
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On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:22 AM, Deirdre Williams<br>
<<a href="mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com" target="_blank">williams.deirdre@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> If the W3C meeting is in Japan on Monday and we need 48 hours (I think??) to<br>
> establish consensus then we don't really have time, but is it worth trying<br>
> with this format Sala? Several people had already accepted Adam's<br>
> suggestion, and this now speaks to Catherine's concerns.<br>
><br>
>>> > The Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus (IGC) endorses and<br>
>>>supports the formal objection lodged by the Electronic Frontier<br>
>>>Foundation (EFF)<br>
>>><<a href="https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg" target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg</a>><br>
>>> ><br>
> "We believe that the inclusion of digital rights management (DRM) in HTML5<br>
> has the potential to stifle innovation and seriously compromise the rights<br>
> of end users; for these reasons particularly, we object to the inclusion of<br>
> DRM in HTML5."<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > We fully endorse the arguments raised by the EFF in their statement<br>
>>>"EFF's Formal Objection to the HTML WG Draft Charter"<br>
>>><<a href="https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg" target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 8 June 2013 14:03, Catherine Roy <<a href="mailto:ecrire@catherine-roy.net" target="_blank">ecrire@catherine-roy.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Deirdre,<br>
>><br>
>> That would be great. But just in case I was not clear, I do not object we<br>
>> keep the bit about stifling innovation either, so it could be something like<br>
>> :<br>
>><br>
>> "We believe that the inclusion of digital rights management (DRM) in HTML5<br>
>> has the potential to stifle innovation and seriously compromise the rights<br>
>> of end users; for these reasons particularly, we object to the inclusion of<br>
>> DRM in HTML5."<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Best regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Catherine<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Catherine Roy<br>
>> <a href="http://www.catherine-roy.net" target="_blank">http://www.catherine-roy.net</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 08/06/2013 1:51 PM, Deirdre Williams wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> What about taking Adam's suggestion but changing the second sentence:<br>
>> We believe that the inclusion of digital rights management in HTML5 has<br>
>> the potential to stifle innovation and we object to the inclusion of digital<br>
>> rights management (DRM) in HTML5.<br>
>> to this:<br>
>> We believe that the inclusion of digital rights management in HTML5<br>
>> seriously compromises the rights of end users; for this reason particularly<br>
>> we object to the inclusion of digital rights management (DRM) in HTML5<br>
>> Deirdre<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 8 June 2013 13:18, Catherine Roy <<a href="mailto:ecrire@catherine-roy.net" target="_blank">ecrire@catherine-roy.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi all,<br>
>>><br>
>>> To be clear, I believe that as one W3C staffer put it recently, EFF has<br>
>>> decided to take the fight against DRM in HTML5 inside the W3C to be more<br>
>>> effective by becoming a member and following the W3C process. Sending<br>
>>> petitions and writing indignated articles and press releases, while having<br>
>>> their place in the landscape, will go only so far in terms of turning this<br>
>>> issue around. Also, since there are plenty of people arguing the technical<br>
>>> drawbacks in the several mailing lists related to HTML, restricted media,<br>
>>> etc., and that a technical formal objection has also been filed (to which I<br>
>>> have lent my support), EFF probably found that, in the short term, the best<br>
>>> way to have a grasp on the issue of DRM in HTML5 was to argue that this work<br>
>>> is out of scope for the working group. But this remains an issue of saying<br>
>>> no to DRM in HTML5 and the EFF formal objection is very clear as to why it<br>
>>> has filed this FO.<br>
>>><br>
>>> As for the IGC, I found it encourageing that there was finally a<br>
>>> semblance of agreement to make a public show of support for the EFF's FO by<br>
>>> releasing a short statement to that effect. My problem here was with the<br>
>>> statement itself. I believe it would be a good idea to explain *why* we<br>
>>> support the objection. I understand that it needs to be short and sweet to<br>
>>> ensure consensus among this group. But simply saying that we support it<br>
>>> because DRM "stifles innovation" is rather lacking IMHO. At the heart of<br>
>>> this issue is users rights and the EFF FO is quite eloquent and thurough on<br>
>>> this aspect. I am kind of newish here so perhaps I have misunderstood the<br>
>>> IGC interests but I thought users rights was a major one for the group and<br>
>>> had hoped a small snippet of a sentence regarding our concerns on this<br>
>>> particular aspect would be good idea. Perhaps I was mistaken.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Finally, as I explained to someone off-list, I believe the W3C is under<br>
>>> enormous pressure at the moment regarding this issue and every action<br>
>>> counts. So much pressure in fact that, as discussed by a W3C employee in a<br>
>>> recent guardian article[1], the W3C Advisory Committee will be trying to<br>
>>> reach consensus on the decision to include or not DRM compatibility in HTML<br>
>>> this coming Monday in Japan. So yes, time is of the essence but I think it<br>
>>> is still not too late to weigh in on this issue.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Best regards,<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Catherine<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> [1]<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/06/html5-drm-w3c-open-web" target="_blank">
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/06/html5-drm-w3c-open-web</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 08/06/2013 7:41 AM, Adam Peake wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thanks Catherine, Deirdre.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I think, or hope, we are pretty much in agreement. I tried to make the<br>
>>> proposed IGC comment pretty simple, cutting the paragraphs that had<br>
>>> attracted the most disagreement. That left an opening sentence saying IGC<br>
>>> supports the EFF statement. 2nd sentence saying IGC thinks DRM in HTML5<br>
>>> harmful, trying to capture the overall sense of the other paragraphs<br>
>>> discussed on the list. 3rd sentence IGC supports the EFF statement. I know<br>
>>> 1st and 3rd rather the same, but that was the point. After a lot of to&fro<br>
>>> where we seemed not to be getting anywhere, just tried to make something<br>
>>> simple.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I suspect we won't get consensus on more.<br>
>>><br>
>>> And either we say something simple or end up, again, with a blathering<br>
>>> and generally meaningless set of contradictions and compromise (for example<br>
>>> see the IGC's February comment to the IGF open consultation).<br>
>>><br>
>>> Best,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Adam<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Jun 8, 2013, at 8:41 AM, Deird</p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>____________________________________________________________</span><br><span>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span><br><span>To be removed from the list, visit:</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>For all other list information and functions, see:</span><br><span> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a></span><br><span>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>