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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi all,<br>
<br>
To be clear, I believe that as one W3C staffer put it recently,
EFF has decided to take the fight against DRM in HTML5 inside the
W3C to be more effective by becoming a member and following the
W3C process. Sending petitions and writing indignated articles and
press releases, while having their place in the landscape, will go
only so far in terms of turning this issue around. Also, since
there are plenty of people arguing the technical drawbacks in the
several mailing lists related to HTML, restricted media, etc., and
that a technical formal objection has also been filed (to which I
have lent my support), EFF probably found that, in the short term,
the best way to have a grasp on the issue of DRM in HTML5 was to
argue that this work is out of scope for the working group. But
this remains an issue of saying no to DRM in HTML5 and the EFF
formal objection is very clear as to why it has filed this FO.<br>
<br>
As for the IGC, I found it encourageing that there was finally a
semblance of agreement to make a public show of support for the
EFF's FO by releasing a short statement to that effect. My problem
here was with the statement itself. I believe it would be a good
idea to explain *why* we support the objection. I understand that
it needs to be short and sweet to ensure consensus among this
group. But simply saying that we support it because DRM "stifles
innovation" is rather lacking IMHO. At the heart of this issue is
users rights and the EFF FO is quite eloquent and thurough on this
aspect. I am kind of newish here so perhaps I have misunderstood
the IGC interests but I thought users rights was a major one for
the group and had hoped a small snippet of a sentence regarding
our concerns on this particular aspect would be good idea. Perhaps
I was mistaken.<br>
<br>
Finally, as I explained to someone off-list, I believe the W3C is
under enormous pressure at the moment regarding this issue and
every action counts. So much pressure in fact that, as discussed
by a W3C employee in a recent guardian article[1], the W3C
Advisory Committee will be trying to reach consensus on the
decision to include or not DRM compatibility in HTML this coming
Monday in Japan.
So yes, time is of the essence but I think it is still not too
late to weigh in on this issue.<br>
<br>
Best regards,
<br>
<br>
<br>
Catherine
<br>
<br>
<br>
[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/06/html5-drm-w3c-open-web">http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/06/html5-drm-w3c-open-web</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 08/06/2013 7:41 AM, Adam Peake wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:C6C03C26-A278-49BF-8B63-8ACC05686E34@glocom.ac.jp"
type="cite">Thanks Catherine, Deirdre.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think, or hope, we are pretty much in agreement. I tried
to make the proposed IGC comment pretty simple, cutting the
paragraphs that had attracted the most disagreement. That left
an opening sentence saying IGC supports the EFF statement. 2nd
sentence saying IGC thinks DRM in HTML5 harmful, trying to
capture the overall sense of the other paragraphs discussed on
the list. 3rd sentence IGC supports the EFF statement. I know
1st and 3rd rather the same, but that was the point. After a
lot of to&fro where we seemed not to be getting anywhere,
just tried to make something simple. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I suspect we won't get consensus on more. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And either we say something simple or end up, again, with a
blathering and generally meaningless set of contradictions and
compromise (for example see the IGC's February comment to the
IGF open consultation).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jun 8, 2013, at 8:41 AM, Deirdre Williams wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Thank
you Catherine - that's what I thought. </span>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">But
if EFF has gone to such lengths to object to the working
group charter rather than to DRM in HTML5 directly then
I'm wondering why we are not simply supporting the EFF
objection to the Charter?</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 7 June 2013 13:10, Catherine
Roy <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ecrire@catherine-roy.net"
target="_blank">ecrire@catherine-roy.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Hi Deirdre.<br>
<br>
I am sure someone from EFF on this list could
explain it better than I so please correct me as
needed but my understanding is that EFF's formal
objection concerns an element of the HTML Working
Group charter that enables the Working Group to
propose the Encrypted Media Extensions (EME)
specification which effectively represents a
technology that, in combination with Content
Decryption Modules (CDMs), allows "the remote
determination of end-user usage of content". EME
is used with CDMs, which is a software component
that permits access to encrypted resources (so
basically DRM).<br>
<br>
EFF has made a formal objection on the Working
Group charter to basically argue that such work,
which is formulated in the charter as "supporting
playback of protected content", is out of scope
for the Working Group deliverables. So in effect,
EFF is objecting to the fact that W3C, through its
HTML Working Group, propose a specification that
will enable the use of Digital Rights Management
(via CDMs) in HTML5.<br>
<br>
It is my understanding that by supporting the EFF
formal objection, IGC is effectively saying no to
DRM in HTML5.
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
<br>
Catherine<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Catherine Roy
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.catherine-roy.net/" target="_blank">http://www.catherine-roy.net</a></pre>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5"> On 07/06/2013 10:02 AM, Deirdre
Williams wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Could someone please help to
clarify things for me?
<div>I hadn't responded before about the
Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)
statement because I had no time to read
the documents until this morning.</div>
<div>My understanding is that the IGC was
asked if it would support the recent EFF
statement.</div>
<div>The EFF statement is a "Formal
Objection to the HTML WG Draft Charter",
indicating that the Charter "<span>represents
a significant broadening of scope for
the HTML WG (and the W3C as a whole) to
include the remote determination of
end-user usage of content." </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg"
target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg</a> The
objection is NOT to DRM in HTML5 as such,
although the text contains a detailed
discussion of that issue as justification
fotr the objection.</div>
<div>Particularly within the working group
Charter, the objection is to this
reference in 2 -</div>
<div>
<p
style="clear:left;font-size:medium;font-family:sans-serif">"Some
examples of features that would be in
scope for the updated HTML
specification:</p>
<ul>
<li><font color="#000000"
face="sans-serif" size="3">additions
to the HTMLMediaElement element
interface, to support use cases such
as live events or premium content;
for example, additions for:</font>
<ul
style="font-size:medium;font-family:sans-serif">
<li>facilitating adaptive streaming
(<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.w3.org/TR/html-media-source/"
style="color:rgb(85,34,153);background-color:transparent"
target="_blank">Media Source
Extensions</a>)</li>
<li>supporting playback of protected
content" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.w3.org/html/wg/charter/2012/"
target="_blank">http://www.w3.org/html/wg/charter/2012/</a> </li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
So please - are we discussing offering
support to EFF's Objection to the Charter,
or are we creating an IGC statement on DRM
in HTML5?</div>
<div>And if the latter, are we doing
anything about EFF's Objection, which was
what we were asked about in the first
place?</div>
<div>Thank you</div>
<div>Deirdre</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 7 June 2013
01:54, Adam Peake <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ajp@glocom.ac.jp"
target="_blank">ajp@glocom.ac.jp</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi Catherine,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Does the EFF statement cover your
concerns? </div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jun 7, 2013, at 2:14
AM, Catherine Roy wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000"
bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>Hi,<br>
<br>
While I support this
latest formulation by
Adam as it is simple,
to the point and
avoids ambiguous and
perhaps (for the
moment) unprovable
facts, I feel it is
lacking with regards
to users' rights,
which is also one of
the key issues at the
heart of this whole
matter. That is, as
someone on the W3C
restricted media
mailing list
mentioned, standards
should be at the
margin of debates, and
if required to take
part, should always,
in the end, be on the
side of the user. Much
like optimizing sites
for particular
browsers that shut out
certain users, there
is a real problem here
with shutting out
users who do not have
the right
software/hardware from
content (in this case,
much of the
discussions revolve
around premium
content but it could
extend to any content
that applies DRM). So,
while I am not a
wordsmith and
therefore apologize
for not proposing
exact wording, I would
like to see something
more clear in the
statement regarding
users rights and
sovereignty over their
euh, "equipment".<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
<br>
Catherine<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Catherine Roy
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.catherine-roy.net/" target="_blank">http://www.catherine-roy.net</a></pre>
<br>
<br>
On 2013-06-06 04:52,
Adam Peake wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>Hi Sala, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To be honest,
having to remember
a url and jump off
to a separate site
for such a small
statement is a
pain. In my
opinion, anyway.
Perhaps you can
see the stats on
the <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a> page,
how many people
bother to visit vs
the very large
number who read
the list?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A cleaned up
version of a short
statement:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The Civil
Society Internet
Governance Caucus
(IGC) endorses and
supports the
formal objection
lodged by the
Electronic
Frontier
Foundation (EFF)
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg"
target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg</a>></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We believe that
the inclusion of
digital rights
management in
HTML5 has the
potential to
stifle innovation
and we object to
the inclusion of
digital rights
management (DRM)
in HTML5.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We fully
endorse the
arguments raised
by the EFF in
their statement
"EFF's Formal
Objection to the
HTML WG Draft
Charter" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg"
target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/pages/drm/w3c-formal-objection-html-wg</a>></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The EFF
statement we're
considering to
support is itself
long and speaks
for itself. See
no need to add
more than above.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Jun 6, 2013,
at 4:30 AM,
Salanieta T.
Tamanikaiwaimaro
wrote:</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote
type="cite">In
case, people
missed it. The
revised Statement
is live at:<br>
<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.igcaucus.org/digressit/archives/112" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/digressit/archives/112</a>
where you can add
your comments and
suggest text.<br>
<br>
Kind Regards,<br>
Sala<br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Jun 6, 2013
at 2:50 AM,
Salanieta T.
Tamanikaiwaimaro
<span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com"
target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0
0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">Dear
All,<br>
<br>
Further to the
discussions on
the mailing
list, I have
revised the
first version
to the one
below. I have
highlighted
the sentence
still in
contention and
also note that
there are
mixed
reactions to
the balance of
the protection
of
intellectual
property
rights through
mediums like
the DRM to
protect
innovation and
challenges to
threats of
impeded
"Access". This
is a very
interesting
debate and one
I believe
should be
thoroughly
explored by
the IGC where
we can come to
some common
ground (if we
are able to).
I have not had
the time to
read Frank La
Rue's new
report but it
would be
interesting to
see his report
of what the
world is
saying in
relation to
this conflict.
I am of course
interested in
what the IGC
has to say.<br>
<br>
Roland and
Avri raised
some very
interesting
points that
deserve
discussion. As
we speak, the
Statement will
be hosted on
the Statement
Workspace on
the IGC
website. I
have tried to
capture every
comment in the
attached
document. I
find that
Statement
Workspaces are
far more
effective in
neatly
allowing
people to
comment on
each sentence
etc, so my
apologies if
the attached
document is
inherently
messy.<br>
<br>
What are your
collective
thoughts on
what Roland
suggested that
whilst there
are many
battles, this
is not one we
should spend
time on? The
key issues for
your
deliberation
would be:-<br>
<ul>
<li>What is
the IGC's
position on
Digital Rights
Management?</li>
<li>What is
the IGC's
position on
Digital Rights
Management in
HTML 5?</li>
</ul>
<p>Thank you
to all those
for suggesting
text and new
wordings and
phrases. I
have tried to
capture your
views below.
All the
mistakes are
of course
mine. Let us
have your
thoughts. As
soon as the
Statement is
on the
Workspace,
Norbert will
inform us and
this will
allow us to
track comments
on the
revised
statement.<br>
</p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><b><u><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Revised
Draft
Statement on
Support for
EFF’s
Objection</span></u></b></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The
Civil Society
Internet
Governance
Caucus (IGC)
objects to the
inclusion of
digital rights
management
(DRM) in
HTML5. We
endorse and
support the
formal
objection
lodged by the
Electronic
Frontier
Foundation
(EFF) and that
the draft
proposal from
the World Wide
Web Consortium
(W3C) could
stifle Web
innovation and
block access
to content for
people across
the planet.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br>
</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">We
believe that
the proposed
standard by
W3C is a
serious threat
to an open and
free internet.
<span
style="background:yellow">The
inherent
danger of the
proposal would
be to shut out
open source
developers and
competition,
destroy
interoperability
and lock in
legacy
business
models.</span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><span
style="background:yellow"><br>
</span></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:0in;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Much
of the
developing
world relies
on open source
developers to
enable OR
CREATE mechanisms
that allow for
an open
environment of
sharing
resources
related to
agricultural
practices,
education,
health and
diverse
content. In
such regions,
access to
information is
a challenge
and with
serious
resource
constraints,
but it is an
open and free
internet (and
the resultant
ease of
collaboration/sharing
information)
that empowers
communities.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">For
the foregoing
reasons we
reiterate our
strong
objection to
the support
for DRM
technologies
in HTML5, and
our agreement
with the EFF's
arguments in
this regard.</span></p>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div>Salanieta
Tamanikaiwaimaro
aka Sala</div>
<div>P.O. Box
17862</div>
<div>Suva</div>
<div>Fiji</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Twitter:
@SalanietaT</div>
<div><a
moz-do-not-send="true">Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro</a></div>
<div>Tel: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B679%203544828" value="+6793544828" target="_blank">+679
3544828</a></div>
<div>Fiji Cell: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B679%20998%202851"
value="+6799982851"
target="_blank">+679 998 2851</a></div>
<div>Blog: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://salanieta.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">salanieta.blogspot.com</a><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div><font
color="#222222"
face="arial,
sans-serif"><span
style="line-height:16px"><br>
</span></font></div>
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-- <br>
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</blockquote>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Catherine Roy
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.catherine-roy.net">http://www.catherine-roy.net</a></pre>
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