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I believe in the reality of choice.<br>
<br>
To translate, from one Third World perspective, pithily:<br>
<br>
1. Imperialism (abroad) breeds tyranny at home - Madison saw it.
Foreign entanglements were a real problem because of the kind of
people it strengthened in power. <br>
<br>
2. Europe later America has had the tools for the emancipation of
humanity. They have not been up to the task. Hence the challenge by
some third worldists on the monopoly of definition and the rights to
determine the terms of the terms of the debate (much like Haitian's
took liberte, egalite, fraternity and gave the vote to all
irrespective of property ownership).<br>
<br>
3. As Pouzin pointed out, this is old hat, but gets coverage now.
Groundless (as meta-narrative - like centre/periphery, third
worldism) "evidence" cannot rebut the presumption in favour of
advanced countries who live under a dualistic system - increasingly
democratic but also paranoic and hence authoritarian-like. <br>
<br>
4. In historical time, Madison points out this has been constitutive
of democracy itself, much like the early US settlers who wanted to
be free men, including free to keep slaves.<br>
<br>
Riaz<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2013/06/08 05:43 PM, Kerry Brown
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’m
not sure of your point. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with
my contention that in a modern democracy we have a chance to
change this type of behaviour by those in power?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Kerry
Brown<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Riaz K Tayob<br>
<b>Sent:</b> June-08-13 7:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] FW: [IP] NSA has
direct access to tech giants' systems for user data,
secrAnet files reveal | World news | guardian.co.uk<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In time of actual war, great
discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive
Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same
tendency to render the head too large for the body.
<b>A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive
will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of
defence against foreign danger have been always the
instruments of tyranny at home.</b> Among the Romans it
was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was
apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under
the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">
Speech, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Convention"
title="w:Philadelphia Convention">
Constitutional Convention</a> (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=1787-06-29&action=edit&redlink=1"
title="1787-06-29 (page does not exist)">1787-06-29</a>),
from Max Farrand's
<i>Records of the Federal Convention of 1787,</i> vol. I <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llfr&fileName=001/llfr001.db&recNum=494&itemLink=D?hlaw:5:./temp/%7Eammem_kmli::%230010495&linkText=1">[1]</a>
(1911), p. 465<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2013/06/08 04:45 PM, Kerry Brown
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Here is a Canadian perspective on this. How many other governments are doing this?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6869/125/">http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6869/125/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>We are living in 1984. This is not just a privacy issue. It is a fundamental change in our western democratic values. The only way we can change this is by keeping this at the forefront in the media. It must be a top issue in all elections. That is the good thing about democracies. Change is possible. It may take a long time, but it is possible.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Kerry Brown<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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