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    I believe in the reality of choice.<br>
    <br>
    To translate, from one Third World perspective, pithily:<br>
    <br>
    1. Imperialism (abroad) breeds tyranny at home - Madison saw it.
    Foreign entanglements were a real problem because of the kind of
    people it strengthened in power. <br>
    <br>
    2. Europe later America has had the tools for the emancipation of
    humanity. They have not been up to the task. Hence the challenge by
    some third worldists on the monopoly of definition and the rights to
    determine the terms of the terms of the debate (much like Haitian's
    took liberte, egalite, fraternity and gave the vote to all
    irrespective of property ownership).<br>
    <br>
    3. As Pouzin pointed out, this is old hat, but gets coverage now.
    Groundless (as meta-narrative - like centre/periphery, third
    worldism) "evidence" cannot rebut the presumption in favour of
    advanced countries who live under a dualistic system - increasingly
    democratic but also paranoic and hence authoritarian-like. <br>
    <br>
    4. In historical time, Madison points out this has been constitutive
    of democracy itself, much like the early US settlers who wanted to
    be free men, including free to keep slaves.<br>
    <br>
    Riaz<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2013/06/08 05:43 PM, Kerry Brown
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:A0615421071EDD4A9F851117D67D538A825604C8@EXCH01.KDBSystems.local"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’m
            not sure of your point. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with
            my contention that in a modern democracy we have a chance to
            change this type of behaviour by those in power?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Kerry
            Brown<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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          0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
                    lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
                  lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
                  [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] <b>On
                    Behalf Of </b>Riaz K Tayob<br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> June-08-13 7:19 AM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] FW: [IP] NSA has
                  direct access to tech giants' systems for user data,
                  secrAnet files reveal | World news | guardian.co.uk<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">In time of actual war, great
            discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive
            Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same
            tendency to render the head too large for the body.
            <b>A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive
              will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of
              defence against foreign danger have been always the
              instruments of tyranny at home.</b> Among the Romans it
            was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was
            apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under
            the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <ul type="disc">
            <li class="MsoNormal"
              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0
              level1 lfo1">
              Speech, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Convention"
                title="w:Philadelphia Convention">
                Constitutional Convention</a> (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=1787-06-29&action=edit&redlink=1"
                title="1787-06-29 (page does not exist)">1787-06-29</a>),
              from Max Farrand's
              <i>Records of the Federal Convention of 1787,</i> vol. I <a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llfr&fileName=001/llfr001.db&recNum=494&itemLink=D?hlaw:5:./temp/%7Eammem_kmli::%230010495&linkText=1">[1]</a>
              (1911), p. 465<o:p></o:p></li>
          </ul>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On 2013/06/08 04:45 PM, Kerry Brown
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <pre>Here is a Canadian perspective on this. How many other governments are doing this?<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6869/125/">http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6869/125/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre>We are living in 1984. This is not just a privacy issue. It is a fundamental change in our western democratic values. The only way we can change this is by keeping this at the forefront in the media. It must be a top issue in all elections. That is the good thing about democracies. Change is possible. It may take a long time, but it is possible.<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre>Kerry Brown<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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