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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Suresh,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Your response to my post of what I think is rather neutral information of general use and value is typical of your behaviour and also a good indication of why I and I would assume anyone with any sense would be reluctant to contribute anything substantive to this list.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Since you seem not to have anything of any substance to add to the note that I sent, there is IMHO no call or need to respond at all and certainly none to make quite incorrect and personalized comments (I would be interested to see the specific posts where I "rail" against the US or anyone else).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Suresh Ramasubramanian [mailto:suresh@hserus.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 24, 2013 7:36 AM<br><b>To:</b> michael gurstein; governance@lists.igcaucus.org; ciresearchers@vancouvercommunity.net; brics-internet-research@vancouvercommunity.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] [chineseinternetresearch] Some traces of irony: A call to "nationalize" major "Chinese" portal sites is censored and then "liberated" in Free Weibo<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>Any censorship or liberation takes place under government oversight <br><br>And china is the sort of place where the government and industry, even private industry, are heavily intertwined, with policy decisions and corporate interests linked to an extent that would dwarf what you routinely rail against in the usa <br><br>--srs (htc one x)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>On 24 May 2013 9:56:08 AM "michael gurstein" wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Without having a lot of background I found this rather difficult to follow but interesting as an insight into aspects of Chinese Internet politics, governance and control.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Also, </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://globalvoicesonline.org/2013/05/22/how-social-commerce-tighens-chinas-grip-on-the-internet/">http://globalvoicesonline.org/2013/05/22/how-social-commerce-tighens-chinas-grip-on-the-internet/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:chineseinternetresearch@yahoogroups.com">chineseinternetresearch@yahoogroups.com</a> [<a href="mailto:chineseinternetresearch@yahoogroups.com">mailto:chineseinternetresearch@yahoogroups.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Han-Teng Liao<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 24, 2013 6:36 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:chineseinternetresearch@yahoogroups.com">chineseinternetresearch@yahoogroups.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [chineseinternetresearch] Some traces of irony: A call to "nationalize" major "Chinese" portal sites is censored and then "liberated" in Free Weibo</span>  <o:p></o:p></p><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Dear all,<br><br>It might be of interest to some of you who is analysing censorship<br>and/or ideological struggles in mainland China.<br><br>* Zhang Hongliang (<span style='font-family:"MS Gothic"'>張宏良</span>), a leftist commentator advocates to<br>"nationalize" major "Chinese" portal sites such as Sina, Sohu, Biadu,<br>Netease, etc. <a href="http://kan.wyzxsd.com/article/elite/2013/05/301838.html">http://kan.wyzxsd.com/article/elite/2013/05/301838.html</a> For<br>an English partial translation of the article, please read:<br><a href="http://globalvoicesonline.org/2013/05/23/well-known-chinese-leftist-advocates-militarized-internet/">http://globalvoicesonline.org/2013/05/23/well-known-chinese-leftist-advocates-militarized-internet/</a><br><br>* The article was removed and thus censored by Sina blog and Sina Weibo<br><br>* The article is now in Free Weibo:<br><a href="https://freeweibo.com/weibo/3579021897679484">https://freeweibo.com/weibo/3579021897679484</a><br><br>The questions remain: Can the US authorities ask these major "Chinese"<br>portal sites to do what they want and what Beijing does not want? Is it<br>likely or even possible that all these portal sites make a concerted<br>effort declare not to follow filtering/censorship directives altogether,<br>seeking sympathy/support from Chinese Internet users?<br><br>Best,<br>han-teng liao<br><br>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:white'>__._,_.___</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td style='border:solid #EAEAEA 1.0pt;background:#F2F2F2;padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white'><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chineseinternetresearch/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZGdsam0yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1MDA1MDcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA0OTI0BG1zZ0lkAzQ1NDkEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzY5MzY2NTQ4?act=reply&messageNum=4549"><span style='color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Reply via web post</span></a> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='border:solid #EAEAEA 1.0pt;background:#F2F2F2;padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white'><a href="mailto:hanteng@gmail.com?subject=Re%3A%20Some%20traces%20of%20irony%3A%20A%20call%20to%20%22nationalize%22%20major%20%22Chinese%22%20portal%20sites%20is%20censored%20and%20then%20%22liberated%22%20in%20Free%20Weibo"><span style='color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Reply to sender </span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='border:solid #EAEAEA 1.0pt;background:#F2F2F2;padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white'><a href="mailto:chineseinternetresearch@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Some%20traces%20of%20irony%3A%20A%20call%20to%20%22nationalize%22%20major%20%22Chinese%22%20portal%20sites%20is%20censored%20and%20then%20%22liberated%22%20in%20Free%20Weibo"><span style='color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Reply to group </span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='border:solid #EAEAEA 1.0pt;background:#F2F2F2;padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:white'><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chineseinternetresearch/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWFzZDhsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1MDA1MDcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA0OTI0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTM2NjU0OA--"><span style='color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Start a New Topic</span></a> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style='border:solid #EAEAEA 1.0pt;background:#F2F2F2;padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:15.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#2D50FD'><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chineseinternetresearch/message/4549;_ylc=X3oDMTM0bHRzMzNrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1MDA1MDcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA0OTI0BG1zZ0lkAzQ1NDkEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzY5MzY2NTQ4BHRwY0lkAzQ1NDk-"><span style='color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Messages in this topic</span></a> (1) </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><div style='margin-bottom:7.5pt' id=ygrp-vital><p class=MsoNormal style='background:#F2F2F2'><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";co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