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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 24 April 2013 01:38 PM,
Peter H. Hellmonds wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1655629641.25647.1366790961206.open-xchange@oxbsgw17"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div>Parminder, please check your facts before making such claims:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"<span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">For instance, no industry representative here."</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469);"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469);">I know personally at least two business
representatives plus one parliamentarian who also runs his own
business. <br>
</span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
Dear Peter<br>
<br>
I went by what a member of the commission, Jeanette, told us. To
quote " 50% of its membership consists of members of the parliament
and 50% of experts appointed by the parliamentary factions,
depending on their relative size" . So I really got my facts right
here.<br>
<br>
It is strange that you consider a parliamentarian who may also run
his own business as an industry representative. I am sure the
concerned parliamentarian will better like to describe himself as a
people's representative, which is what he is. I thought stakeholder
group representatives were those whom stakeholder groups expressly
put forward as their representative. But it seems more you venture
into the multistakeholderism world, the less you are clear about it.
<br>
<br>
You say at least two business representatives other than the
parliamentarian - who I understand were 'experts' nominated by
political parties. Now that makes them experts nominated by
political parties and not industry representatives, never mind what
profession that may pursue. <br>
<br>
But let me not argue with you. But I can at least hope that you will
apply definitions consistently. I simply ask, would you take a
global commission on the Internet with half the members who are
'experts' nominated by various political factions in the UN - say,
the regional groups or OECD country, G 77 etc groups - as a
multistakeholder body? <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1655629641.25647.1366790961206.open-xchange@oxbsgw17"
type="cite">
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469);"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469);">As to your question:</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469);"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469);">"</span><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color:
rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);
">Are you now ready to consider inclusion of 'experts'
selected by politicians as enough to make things
multi-stakeholder?"</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); "><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">Probably as much as a selection of stakeholder
reps for the IGF MAG by the UN 'black box' which has been
accepted by participants in the IGF. </span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
So, now IGF MAG is less multi-stakeholder than the German
parliamentary commission. Interesting perspective :). <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1655629641.25647.1366790961206.open-xchange@oxbsgw17"
type="cite">
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">I'm sure Wolfgang and Jeanette can say more about
the selection process in the German national Internet Enquete
Commission. <br>
</span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Jeanette has described the process quite specifically, and it
follows the pattern of parliamentary committees in many democracies.
But happy to hear more details.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1655629641.25647.1366790961206.open-xchange@oxbsgw17"
type="cite">
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); "><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469);">Regards,<br>
</span><br>
<span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227,
0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,
0.230469); ">Peter </span></div>
<div><br>
On 24.04.2013, at 03:54, "parminder" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 23 April 2013 10:04 PM,
Peter H. Hellmonds wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:007801ce4040$6eff41f0$4cfdc5d0$@hellmonds@hellmonds.eu"
type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">First of
all, the link provided is not the link to the 1200 pages
report, but to the 48 pages “executive summary”. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">As to the
questions about the multistakeholder nature:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">The composition of the Internet
Enquete Commission was 17 parliamentarians and 17
members from different stakeholder groups, so this was a
multistakeholder commission. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Peter,<br>
<br>
(Parminder) 17 members not from other stakeholder groups, but
'experts' nominated by political parties in proportion of their
strength in the parliament, right! For instance, no industry
representative here. Are you now ready to consider inclusion of
'experts' selected by politicians as enough to make things
multi-stakeholder? If so, I can tell you that UN has endless
number of committee consisting of such experts, doing very
important work. <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:007801ce4040$6eff41f0$4cfdc5d0$@hellmonds@hellmonds.eu"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:#1F497D">The Internet Enquete Commission
has employed a number of innovative online participation
options giving citizens the chance to directly
contribute and comment on the proceedings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regarding
Internet Governance:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The most
relevant detailed report about International Issues and
Internet Governance is here: </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://dipbt.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/17/124/1712480.pdf">http://dipbt.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/17/124/1712480.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The
recommendation of this report is to keep the established
governance framework and to protect the freedom and open
character of the Internet. To assure the government is
kept abreast of changes, there shall be a regular
monitoring and reports. Multistakeholder participation
in national and international governance issues shall be
further strengthened. There shall be no new governmental
or intergovernmental Internet Governance institutions as
long as the existing institutions maintain the current
way of an open and free Internet. The Commission is of
the opinion that the current US oversight should yield
to a broader supervisory structure for ICANN and IANA</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
(Parminder) Exactly the demand of most developing countries, not
a penny more... Only, countries like India have gone further
beyond generic statements and suggested what such a broad
supervisory structure could look like. We, as in IT for Change,
have tried to present some structural possibilities and trigger
a debate here in the IGC. But coming from the Southern side, all
that looks like so explosive, betrayal and so on..... Now since
a German nationally constituted 'multi-stakeholder' commission
also calls for a new 'supervisory structure' can we at least now
debate the possible contours of one...<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:007801ce4040$6eff41f0$4cfdc5d0$@hellmonds@hellmonds.eu"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">and
suggests more engagement by the German government and
the EU. To enable that, German ministries should get
expanded funding to enhance their support for
multistakeholder participation. The IGF should get
German funding through the trust fund managed by UN
DESA.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">There is a
lot more, but this summarizes some of the main points.
Jeanette has already provided some background into the
general working of the commission. I’m sure Wolfgang and
Jeanette can shed some more light on the content of the
Internet Governance debate. Throwing the text through an
automatic translation engine might also help to access
its contents for those who don’t understand sufficient
German. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">-- Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="DE"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>parminder<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> 22 April 2013 07:18<br>
<b>An:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [governance] The German Federal
Internet Commission Report (Der Spiegel)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Monday 22 April 2013 02:52 AM, Lee
W McKnight wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Very
interesting material. <br>
<br>
Link to final report: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://dipbt.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/17/125/1712550.pdf"
target="_blank">http://dipbt.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/17/125/1712550.pdf</a><br>
<br>
Perhaps IGC's own Jeanette Hoffman who participated,
might summarize the 1200 pp full report, and suggest
implications for global internet governance? : )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/special-commission-calls-for-internet-commissioner-in-germany-a-895412.html"
target="_blank">http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/special-commission-calls-for-internet-commissioner-in-germany-a-895412.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><br>
<br>
While one awaits further information, one thing is clear
from the referred news item that the Commission strongly
underscored the importance of cross cutting
Internet-related public policy issues in asking the
"German government to get more serious about
Internet-related issues" and in seeking the setting up <b><i>a
new committee of the parliament for Internet-related
public policy issues</i></b> . To me, it closely
parallels the Indian demand for the UN Committee on
Internet-related Policies. The overall logic and
justifications are very similar, especially with what we
all recognise as an inherently global nature of the
Internet.<br>
<br>
Will be interesting to know if the prosed German
Parliamentary Committee will have similar levels of
multistakeholder engagement as the India' proposed UN
CIRP. And I quote from the CIRP proposal so that
people/ we can make a comparison. <br>
<br>
(quote from UN CIRP proposal begins)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p>It will ensure the participation of all relevant
stakeholders by establishing four Advisory Groups, one
each for civil society, the private sector,
intergovernmental and international organizations, and
the technical and academic community. The Advisory Groups
will provide their inputs and recommendations to the CIRP
. The meetings of CIRP and the advisory groups will be
serviced by the UNCTAD Secretariat that also services the
meetings of the Commission on Science and Technology for
Development. The Internet Governance Forum will provide
inputs to CIRP in the spirit of complementarity between
the two. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">(ends)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>With further elaboration in the Annexure to the CIRP
proposal <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><br>
(quote begins)<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p><b><i>Multistakeholder participation</i></b>:
Recognizing the need to involve all stakeholders in
Global Internet Governance in their respective roles,
the CIRP shall ensure the participation of all
stakeholders recognized in the Tunis Agenda. Four
Advisory Groups one each for Civil Society, the
Private Sector, InterGovernmental and International
Organisations, and the Technical and Academic Community
will be established, to assist and advise the CIRP .
These Groups would be self organized, as per agreed
principles, to ensure transparency, representativity and
inclusiveness. The Advisory Groups will meet annually in
Geneva and in conjunction with any additional meetings
of the CIRP , Their meetings will be held back to back
with the meetings of the CIRP , so that they are able to
provide their inputs and recommendations in a timely
manner, to the CIRP .<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><b><i>Links with the IGF</i></b>: Recognizing the value
of the Internet Governance Forum as an open, unique
forum for multi-stakeholder policy dialogue on Internet
issues, the deliberations in the lGF along with any
inputs, background information and analysis it may
provide, will be taken as inputs for consideration of
the CIRP . An improved and strengthened lGF that can
serve as a purposeful body for policy consultations and
provide meaningful policy inputs to the CIRP , will
ensure a stronger and more effective complementarity
between the CIRP and the IGF. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">(ends)<br>
<br>
Parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><br>
Lee<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">
<hr align="center" size="3" width="100%"></span></div>
<div id="divRpF621695">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
on behalf of michael gurstein [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 21, 2013 4:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [governance] The German Federal
Internet Commission Report (Der Spiegel)</span><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In Germany. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/special-commission-calls-for-internet-commissioner-in-germany-a-895412.html"
target="_blank">http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/special-commission-calls-for-internet-commissioner-in-germany-a-895412.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman , serif","serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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