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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Monday 15 April 2013 10:09 AM, Avri
Doria wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:1A69CA05-6519-4CCE-BD08-76C735A603C4@acm.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
<snip></pre>
<pre wrap="">
Some of the things I think of as government enabled theft in the Internet:
- trademark of common words, on the Internet or in general.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Was not that theft actually enabled by ICANN, through allowing
closed generic tlds like .book, something I think you have not
opposed (please correct me if I am wrong). In fact the recent <a
href="https://gacweb.icann.org/download/attachments/27132037/Beijing%20Communique%20april2013_Final.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1365666376000&api=v2">GAC
communiqué</a> ( Government Advisory Committee of ICANN) seeks
to rightly obstruct such closed generic tlds, asking that such tlds
may only be alllowed if a clear public purpose is served by such
allocation Such a 'public purpose' proviso I think will cover cases
like for instance of allocation of .health even as a closed tlds to
WHO but certainly not amazon owning .book. This to me a clear
instance whereby a so called bottom up multistakeholder process
miserably failed to prevent theft on the Internet and governments
have intervened to stop such theft. (The only comment you have made
on this recent GAC communiqué which took this important step to stop
theft on the Internet is of, to quote you recent email " government
wanting ICANN to get into the content regulation business")<br>
<br>
And also if you are so interested in preventing IP related thefts,
please do follow WIPO like global governance processes to see which
governments are most active in promoting such theft. Also see how
the OECD Principles for Internet Policy Making are new instruments
of such theft on and through the Internet, and almost surely if such
principles were made by participation of all countries instead of
just OECD (read, through UN based bodies), much lesser possibilities
of such theft would have been involved........<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1A69CA05-6519-4CCE-BD08-76C735A603C4@acm.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
- exorbitant fees for wireless bandwidth/access charged in some regions, especially when protected by government sanction mono/duopololy</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
This particular theft is in fact now being further facilitated to a
great degree by efforts at complete de-regulation of the Internet
sector (inter alia pl see the recent US congress bill controversy
reg government control and the Internet) something which was also
implicated at the WCIT in the war cry of 'no regulation of the
Internet'. No universal service obligations, no price controls, no
net neutrality or common carriage obligations. <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1A69CA05-6519-4CCE-BD08-76C735A603C4@acm.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
avri
On 14 Apr 2013, at 14:52, michael gurstein wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thanks Anriette for a very useful commentary and Avri for raising the issue...
There is of course, the contemporary (?) debate as to whether to refer to issues such as the management of water supplies as a "management of a commons" or as a "management of a public good"... In both formulations of course, there are inbuilt assumptions--in the first instance, that of the "commons" there is an assumption that the structure of governance/management is occuring in some sort of context where no existing governance/management structures are already in place and thus means must found to create these; which, as Anriette points to, should be such as to satisfy the (legitimate?) needs of all parties. In the latter case that of the "public good", there is the assumption of the pre-existence of a "public" and thus of some form of governance structures which repesent at some level the collective will of that public.
Those of an anti-government/anti-State bent will clearly opt for the former formulation while those without such a bias will potentially opt for either depending on the specifics of the circumstance.
Whether in our context the Internet is seen as a "commons" or as a "public good" may thus perhap simply be a matter of taste (or political/ideological pre-disposition).
However, a decision around this may also be associated with issues such as assessments of the role of power--economic, political, social--in the context of governance. One of the major challenges facing those who opt to see the Internet as a commons is how to deal with issues of power differentials within that commons. Avri in her disquisition pointed to the power of the State in abrogating the extent of the commons but interestingly she failed to mention the role of private corporations in similarly parcelling out and limiting the extent of the commons and perhaps more importantly the capacity of the commons to self-manage its affairs in contexts where the private sector is already acting/has power. (To use Anriette's example what happens when the water supply is already in whole or in part privatized, how then to treat it as a commons in the absence of State power?)
Any discussion of the Internet as a commons must IMHO as a basic and defining issue deal with how in an Internet treated as a commons, the differential power of the various actors will be managed/controlled/equalized (?). It is again IMHO totally insufficient to present the Internet as a commons as a paradigm for matters of Internet Governance and specifically as a solution to presumed overweening attempts at control by States without equally dealing with matters of actual patterns of control over significant elements of the Internet by unaccountable private corporations and individual States pursuing their own specific self-interests.
One reason to opt for a paradigm of the Internet as a global public good is precisely because within that model are conceptual elements and strategies for managing/controlling the role of otherwise unaccountable private sector actors and equally that of rogue States which choose to ignore the role of the global interest in the pursuit of local/national interests.
Whether some commons/publc good hybrid model is possible where concerns with respect to government control (as for example with respect to Freedom of Expression) and parallel concerns with respect to private control or individual national control (as for example in ensuring the public interest in matters such as privacy, equality in the distribution of opportunities to realize benefits, and so on) can be mutually accommodated is perhaps our most important task in this context.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] On Behalf Of Anriette Esterhuysen
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 9:59 AM
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
Subject: Re: [governance] Conflicts in Internet Governance
The question is, what is needed to protect and strengthen the internet commons?
As Avri points out, governments have assisted the theft of the commons.
I would say that the form that this assistance takes ranges from lack of the basic regulation that is needed to protect it to active protection of certain vested interests. That is why the notion of an 'unregulated'
internet is so problematic and why the notion of an open and unregulated internet can so easily be a contradiction in terms.
There needs to be some basic rules that makes sure that the internet remains 'open and free' in a broad sense.
The risks, or the challenges related to this is that many governments approach regulation of the internet not from the perspective of protecting it as a commons, but from the perspective of enabling them to exercise more control over internet content and use, and user behaviour.
I remain convinced that one of the difficulties in internet governance is that there is a conceptual/principle deficit of some kind. Not so much statement of principles that affirm freedom of expression, 'net-neutrality', etc.. Those are good....
I think they real deficit is in how the internet is defined, or what kind of entity we understand it to be.
When the management and supply of water is being regulated there are also lots of contestation. For example between mines, communities who live in the catchment area, communities who live downstream subject to seasonal flooding, cities and commercial farms who need dams, and nature conservation and reservers, where traditional seasonal flooding is often essential to the survival of many species.
Policy would generally try to understand and balance all these interests and will be premised on a common understanding that water is a common resource. The public interest principles will be fairly easily understood by most that are involved water policy and regulation. But there will be lots of argument about how it is managed, and used and often the wrong decisions will be made.
I just had a glance at the CGI.br principles and the IRP 10 principles and neither statement contains anything that suggests what the internet
- from the perspective of it being a 'commons' or a public good - is. I know I have been dwelling on this ONE KEY 'principle' deficit for a while... but I just can't give thinking it is at the root of the difficulties we have in addressing the conflicts of interest in internet governance.
Anriette
On 14/04/2013 02:50, Avri Doria wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">All of the Internet, like the land world before it, was once commons. Then, as before, the rich, the powerful and greedy, with the assistance of the governments they bought, and continue to buy, began to misappropriate those commons and called it property. Each day more of that commons its stolen. Each day more of the linguistic commons is stolen and called intellectual property. The Internet commons is almost gone. This its what government do best - with some very few exceptions - assist in the theft of the commons.
I have no problem with those who create art or new Internet spaces enjoying the fruits of their creativity and inventiveness. A neologism may be owned. A new Internet space may be owned. But the language itself or the Internet should not be.
Diego Rafael Canabarro <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:diegocanabarro@gmail.com"><diegocanabarro@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">At the International Studies Association Annual Convention last week
in San Francisco, an official from the US Department of State said:
"there's no commons on cyberspace". That perception is closely
related to the conflict presented by Mr. Perry bellow in this thread.
I'm still struggling with that assertion.
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Norbert Bollow <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch"><nb@bollow.ch></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Roland Perry <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:roland@internetpolicyagency.com"><roland@internetpolicyagency.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">One of the most significant I'm aware of (and I hope this is within
the remit of your question):
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">It definitely is, and it's a conflict that I have not been
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">sufficiently
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">conscious of, so thank you very much for pointing this out!
Greetings,
Norbert
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The private sector has built extensive networks [fixed and mobile]
using $billons of investment on which their shareholders [many of
whom are the consumers' pension funds] expect a return, versus many
customers who feel entitled to have unlimited usage for a
relatively trivial monthly payment (which
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">they
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">sometimes dress up as "Network Neutrality").
I post this not to support either of the above points of view, but
merely to inform readers of the conflict it unquestionably
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">represents.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
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<pre wrap="">
--
Diego R. Canabarro
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lattes.cnpq.br/4980585945314597">http://lattes.cnpq.br/4980585945314597</a>
--
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--
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Avri Doria
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
--
------------------------------------------------------
anriette esterhuysen <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</a>
executive director, association for progressive communications <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.apc.org">www.apc.org</a> po box 29755, melville 2109 south africa tel/fax +27 11 726 1692
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<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
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