<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Many will find this a delightful 'leap of inductive reasoning' - just the sort of advance we may expect of a most thoughtful contributor hereon.<div><br></div><div>Notably, the ability to step back from an immediate situation, and frame it a bit more neutrally, is one of the tools for insight. Taking ourselves out of the immediate, so that we may see a bit more clearly. Then the frame and its elements may come a bit more into view. And hence more available for discourse.<br><div><br></div><div>Whatever direction one's analysis may go, from there.</div><div><br></div><div>(Nor is slighting, with 'dubious,' conducive to exchange. Facts, and analysis, carry matters forward. Not slights.)</div><div><br></div><div>David</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Apr 3, 2013, at 10:01 AM:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"> <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff"><p>That is as wild a leap in inductive reasoning as it has been my dubious privilege to see on this list. <br> <br> And an over estimation of what civil society is capable of in this area. <br> <br></p><div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p>On 3 April 2013 7:14:24 PM Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy@ciroap.org> wrote:</jeremy@ciroap.org></p> <blockquote type="cite"> <div><div><div>On 31/03/2013, at 17:35 PM, Nick Ashton-Hart <<a href="mailto:nashton@consensus.pro">nashton@consensus.pro</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">+1</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><br></div><div>On 29 Mar 2013 13:57, "McTim" <<a href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com">dogwallah@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><div>On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <<a href="mailto:jeremy@ciroap.org">jeremy@ciroap.org</a>> wrote:</div><div><br></div><div>> Because the technical community keeps acting against the broader public</div><div>> interest</div><div><br></div><div>Public interest as you see it, but it seems they have of course been</div><div>responsible for ALL of the evolution of the highly inclusive IG</div><div>systems over many decades. These systems have created the most</div><div>successful, open and inclusive communications platform in history.</div></blockquote><br></div><div>The network at my office was put together by a local firm called Abadi IT. They did a great job, I really can't fault them on it. It was more than just plugging cables together, they did some custom development for us too (using free open source software, which I insist on). We rely on them heavily to manage the technical aspects of our connection. And they're nice people. Their head engineer, Firdaus, invited me to his wedding last year.</div><div><br></div><div>But we have cause to be worried about the governance of this network. In the lead-up to the general election (Parliament was dissolved today in fact), here have been veiled threats against NGOs, especially on their use of online communications. Threats have been made to invoke laws against those who "spread false information" through blogs. Just last week, a new independent online radio station, Free Malaysia Radio, was subject to a DDOS attack. Pro-opposition websites have also been targetted. Bugs have been planted, and websites hacked. Earlier this year Malaysia's most respected human rights NGO, Suaram, was targetted in a series of government attacks on both their physical and online infrastructure.</div><div><br></div><div>Firdaus insists that he can manage such threats to our network through his "highly inclusive systems", which appear to be an online bulletin board and a monthly meeting of the local technical community that takes place in the back room of a restaurant ("in which anyone can participate", he assures us).</div><div><br></div><div>Nonetheless, we take to thinking that the time has come for us to look beyond Firdaus and his colleagues. The issues and forces involved are now much bigger than they can handle. Maybe we need to get together with some other NGOs to create a broader public interest platform through which we can challenge the government to uphold our rights online. We might involve human rights NGOs like Suaram, maybe the Centre for Independent Journalism, invite the police and other government ministries to join us in dialogue, along with representatives of the opposition parties. We would invite representatives of Internet providers too. And of course, we would invite Firdaus due to his technical expertise.</div><div><br></div><div>But Firdaus might get a little jealous of this sudden demotion, from the person who built our network from scratch, to somebody who now is just one stakeholder involved in its ongoing management. He might feel such umbrage at this that he gets together with some mates from the registry that handles our domain and some engineers at our ISP, to block the formation of our nascent platform, claiming that "the network we built for you was the most successful, open and inclusive that you ever had". If the platform is formed nonetheless, he might ensure that he is appointed to chair its meetings, would stack those meetings with his friends, and ensure that no resolutions are made other than those that support their own technical work.</div><div><br></div><div>Thankfully, Firdaus wouldn't do this. He realises that just because he built the network doesn't make him any special claim of authority or expertise over every aspect of its governance. But then again, Firdaus isn't isn't a Director of ISOC.</div></div><br><div> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium; border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">-- </span><br style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><p style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><b>Dr Jeremy Malcolm<br>Senior Policy Officer<br>Consumers International | the global campaigning voice for consumers</b><br>Office for Asia-Pacific and the Middle East<br>Lot 5-1 Wisma WIM, 7 Jalan Abang Haji Openg, TTDI, 60000 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia<br>Tel: +60 3 7726 1599</p><div style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p style="font-size: 9pt; ">WCRD 2013 – Consumer Justice Now! | Consumer Protection Map: <a href="https://wcrd2013.crowdmap.com/main">https://wcrd2013.crowdmap.com/main</a> | #wcrd2013</p><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">@Consumers_Int | <a href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/">www.consumersinternational.org</a> | <a href="http://www.facebook.com/consumersinternational">www.facebook.com/consumersinternational</a></p><p style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(153, 153, 153); ">Read our <a href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality" target="_blank">email confidentiality notice</a>. Don't print this email unless necessary.</p></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></div></blockquote> </div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>