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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 26 March 2013 01:02 PM, Ian
Peter wrote:<br>
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<div>Wish I had a simple answer, Parminder....</div>
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<br>
A complex answer will do as long as it means we can do something as
civil society :)<br>
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<div>Awareness is the starting point, people aren’t talking
about this or realising the ramifications. With growing
awareness perhaps some sensible widely supported actions
will emerge, or perhaps a multitude of related actions. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>This needs a broad social movement, and at some time an
agreed course of action. If Brett Solomon is reading here,
he might have some suggestions, and other groups here such
as Electronic Frontier Foundation also have wide experience
in this sort of area.</div>
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<br>
Awareness, social movement building and political actions all work
in a kind of dialectic (or trialectic) .... And at different times,
there are different windows of opportunity. Right now we have a UN
Working Group with the mandate to look into what is the appropriate
institutional architecture for global governance. And we need to
give our response to it. No, time wont wait. It took 8 years to get
this working group, and it has just a year to produce its report.
And if we do not respond to this opportunity, another similar one
may not come for decades. <br>
<br>
It is fine if we prefer one kind of institutional architecture over
the other - and our choice should be able to cover the whole gamut
of issues that we have been discussing (so, no,again, it is not just
critical Internet resources). However, we will need to make the
overall choice now. Or the choice will be made by default. As they
say, in politics, not doing anything is also an active political
choice. I think it is this moment of reckoning that faces the civil
society today. Will we be once again only be reactive. Or are we
able to be a part of setting the agenda this time around.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
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<div>But right now detailed analysis of Tallinn and its
ramifications, brought down to a small readable document
with the major points highlighted, would be a good step.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ian </div>
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<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="parminder@itforchange.net"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder</a>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:38 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">Ian Peter</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Tallin Manual - a
Cyber Warfare convention?</div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Monday 25 March 2013 02:08
AM, Ian Peter wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:C85C4276D8D84E6FB4D1C7FD49B746E7@Toshiba"
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<div>I agree with Lee – I think there might be a lot
we can do.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I think there is a strong argument for a
declaration of an Internet war free zone of sorts –
I think of Swiss neutrality, non-proliferation
treaties, nuclear weapon free zones, etc. I think a
compelling argument can be made that cyberwarfare
with its inability to localise damage can be seen to
be something we should not contemplate. We may not
be able to stop it, but we may be able to have it
declared illegal or immoral. That would be a good
first step.</div>
</div>
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<br>
Ian, <br>
<br>
Where do you think these steps can be taken, in an effective
manner? Civil society needs a real doable roadmap. <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
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<div>Ian Peter</div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
title="lmcknigh@syr.edu"
href="mailto:lmcknigh@syr.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">Lee W McKnight</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 25, 2013 7:29 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a
title="governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
; <a title="pouzin@well.com"
href="mailto:pouzin@well.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Louis Pouzin (well)</a>
; <a title="ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Ian Peter</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> RE: [governance] Tallin
Manual - a Cyber Warfare convention?</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
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<div style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr;
COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Louis, <br>
<br>
re CS influence, I note the Red Cross had a seat
at the table while the docs were drafted or at
least was on the pre-publication review list,
unsure myself how they worked together.<br>
<br>
But I would not be so dismissive of CS's ability
to influence modification of part or object to
certain sections. In fact, sounds like a good
topic for an IGC co-sponsored workshop at
IGF...assuming we don;t already have a submission
coming in right on target. <br>
<br>
Now putting on my political and media games
analyst hat...the public naming and shaming of the
particular building in Shanghai full of People's
Liberation Army contractors incessantly cracking
government and firm systems and - borrowing?- or
should I say sharing for themselves that
information, fits in context of the push towards
new international law for cyber warfare. <br>
<br>
Which in principle may be better than the absence
of such a legal framework; or granted, possibly
worse when implemented in practice. <br>
<br>
But my comment is just that it is too soon to say
how this will all play out, and we should not
assume we cannot have an impact on the path.<br>
<br>
Lee<br>
<br>
PS: And belated warmest congratulations!!! : )<br>
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<div style="DIRECTION: ltr" id="divRpF20562"><font
color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:pouzin@gmail.com">pouzin@gmail.com</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:pouzin@gmail.com">pouzin@gmail.com</a>]
on behalf of Louis Pouzin (well) [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:pouzin@well.com">pouzin@well.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
Ian Peter<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [governance] Tallin Manual -
a Cyber Warfare convention?<br>
</font><br>
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<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 23, 2013
at 3:40 AM, Ian Peter <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<div><span><font color="#333333"><font
face="Helvetica"><span><font
style="FONT-SIZE:
10.5pt">As Samuel Morse
might have remarked,
“What God hath wrought”.</font></span></font></font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#333333"><font
face="Helvetica"><span></span></font></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#333333"><font
face="Helvetica"><span><font
style="FONT-SIZE:
10.5pt">A </font></span><font
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">landmark
document created at the
request of NATO has
proposed a set of rules
for how international
cyberwarfare should be
conducted. Written by 20
experts in conjunction
with the International
Committee of the Red Cross
and the US Cyber Command,
the</font></font></font></span><font
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><a
href="http://issuu.com/nato_ccd_coe/docs/tallinnmanual?mode=embed&layout=http%3A%2F%2Fskin.issuu.com%2Fv%2Flight%2Flayout.xml&showFlipBtn=true"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><i><font
color="#fb4834"><font
style="TEXT-DECORATION:
none" face="Helvetica">Tallinn
Manual on the
International Law
Applicable to Cyber
Warfare</font></font></i></a></font><span><font
face="Helvetica"><font
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><font
color="#333333"><span> </span>analyzes
the rules of conventional
war and applies them to
state-sponsored
cyberattacks.</font></font></font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><a
title="http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare"
href="http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare</a></div>
<div> </div>
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<div> </div>
<div>Thanks Ian for precious links. It seems
that time is coming for legal definitions
of cyberwarfare, in which we are living
already. Initiatives belong to the powers
that be, the only ones with the capacity
to follow or violate the rules. CS doesn't
have much influence, except through
occasional media power.<br>
<br>
Some more frightening documents on real
war:<br>
<br>
<a
href="http://www.salon.com/2013/02/19/latin_america_territorio_libre_from_the_cia_partner/?source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Premium%29_7_30_110"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.salon.com/2013/02/19/latin_america_territorio_libre_from_the_cia_partner/?source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Premium%29_7_30_110</a><br>
<br>
<a
href="http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/projects/globalizing-torture"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/projects/globalizing-torture</a><br>
<br>
One may observe that oppressive regimes
resort to coded sanitized language to mean
illegal and criminal activities. This was
anticipated by Orwell (newspeak), and
turned real with soviet labor camp
(concentration), nazism special treatment
(gas chamber), maoism reeducation
(deportation), bushism and obamism
extraordinary rendition (torture), inter
alia.<br>
<br>
Louis<br>
<br>
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