<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Monday 25 March 2013 02:08 AM, Ian
Peter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:C85C4276D8D84E6FB4D1C7FD49B746E7@Toshiba"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<style id="owaParaStyle" type="text/css">P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}</style>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE:
12pt">
<div>I agree with Lee – I think there might be a lot we can
do.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I think there is a strong argument for a declaration of
an Internet war free zone of sorts – I think of Swiss
neutrality, non-proliferation treaties, nuclear weapon free
zones, etc. I think a compelling argument can be made that
cyberwarfare with its inability to localise damage can be
seen to be something we should not contemplate. We may not
be able to stop it, but we may be able to have it declared
illegal or immoral. That would be a good first step.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Ian, <br>
<br>
Where do you think these steps can be taken, in an effective manner?
Civil society needs a real doable roadmap. <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:C85C4276D8D84E6FB4D1C7FD49B746E7@Toshiba"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE:
12pt">
<div> </div>
<div>Ian Peter</div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT:
normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="lmcknigh@syr.edu"
href="mailto:lmcknigh@syr.edu">Lee W McKnight</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 25, 2013 7:29 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
; <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="pouzin@well.com"
href="mailto:pouzin@well.com">Louis Pouzin (well)</a>
; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">Ian Peter</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> RE: [governance] Tallin Manual - a
Cyber Warfare convention?</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT:
normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR:
#000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Louis, <br>
<br>
re CS influence, I note the Red Cross had a seat at the
table while the docs were drafted or at least was on the
pre-publication review list, unsure myself how they worked
together.<br>
<br>
But I would not be so dismissive of CS's ability to
influence modification of part or object to certain
sections. In fact, sounds like a good topic for an IGC
co-sponsored workshop at IGF...assuming we don;t already
have a submission coming in right on target. <br>
<br>
Now putting on my political and media games analyst
hat...the public naming and shaming of the particular
building in Shanghai full of People's Liberation Army
contractors incessantly cracking government and firm
systems and - borrowing?- or should I say sharing for
themselves that information, fits in context of the push
towards new international law for cyber warfare. <br>
<br>
Which in principle may be better than the absence of such
a legal framework; or granted, possibly worse when
implemented in practice. <br>
<br>
But my comment is just that it is too soon to say how this
will all play out, and we should not assume we cannot have
an impact on the path.<br>
<br>
Lee<br>
<br>
PS: And belated warmest congratulations!!! : )<br>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: times new roman; COLOR: #000000;
FONT-SIZE: 16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="DIRECTION: ltr" id="divRpF20562"><font
color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pouzin@gmail.com">pouzin@gmail.com</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pouzin@gmail.com">pouzin@gmail.com</a>] on behalf of
Louis Pouzin (well) [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pouzin@well.com">pouzin@well.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Ian Peter<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [governance] Tallin Manual - a Cyber
Warfare convention?<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 3:40
AM, Ian Peter <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
target="_blank">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid;
MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-SIZE:
12pt">
<div><span><font color="#333333"><font
face="Helvetica"><span><font
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">As
Samuel Morse might have
remarked, “What God hath
wrought”.</font></span></font></font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#333333"><font
face="Helvetica"><span></span></font></font></span> </div>
<div><span><font color="#333333"><font
face="Helvetica"><span><font
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">A </font></span><font
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">landmark
document created at the request of
NATO has proposed a set of rules
for how international cyberwarfare
should be conducted. Written by 20
experts in conjunction with the
International Committee of the Red
Cross and the US Cyber Command,
the</font></font></font></span><font
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://issuu.com/nato_ccd_coe/docs/tallinnmanual?mode=embed&layout=http%3A%2F%2Fskin.issuu.com%2Fv%2Flight%2Flayout.xml&showFlipBtn=true"
target="_blank"><i><font
color="#fb4834"><font
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none"
face="Helvetica">Tallinn Manual
on the International Law
Applicable to Cyber Warfare</font></font></i></a></font><span><font
face="Helvetica"><font
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><font
color="#333333"><span> </span>analyzes
the rules of conventional war and
applies them to state-sponsored
cyberattacks.</font></font></font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare"
href="http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare"
target="_blank">http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare</a></div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
- - -<br>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks Ian for precious links. It seems that
time is coming for legal definitions of
cyberwarfare, in which we are living already.
Initiatives belong to the powers that be, the only
ones with the capacity to follow or violate the
rules. CS doesn't have much influence, except
through occasional media power.<br>
<br>
Some more frightening documents on real war:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.salon.com/2013/02/19/latin_america_territorio_libre_from_the_cia_partner/?source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Premium%29_7_30_110"
target="_blank">http://www.salon.com/2013/02/19/latin_america_territorio_libre_from_the_cia_partner/?source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Premium%29_7_30_110</a><br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/projects/globalizing-torture"
target="_blank">http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/projects/globalizing-torture</a><br>
<br>
One may observe that oppressive regimes resort to
coded sanitized language to mean illegal and
criminal activities. This was anticipated by
Orwell (newspeak), and turned real with soviet
labor camp (concentration), nazism special
treatment (gas chamber), maoism reeducation
(deportation), bushism and obamism extraordinary
rendition (torture), inter alia.<br>
<br>
Louis<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>