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<DIV>Wish I had a simple answer, Parminder....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Awareness is the starting point, people aren’t talking about this or
realising the ramifications. With growing awareness perhaps some sensible widely
supported actions will emerge, or perhaps a multitude of related actions. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This needs a broad social movement, and at some time an agreed course of
action. If Brett Solomon is reading here, he might have some suggestions, and
other groups here such as Electronic Frontier Foundation also have wide
experience in this sort of area.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>But right now detailed analysis of Tallinn and its ramifications, brought
down to a small readable document with the major points highlighted, would be a
good step.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ian </DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=parminder@itforchange.net
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:38 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=governance@lists.igcaucus.org
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</A> ;
<A title=ian.peter@ianpeter.com href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">Ian
Peter</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [governance] Tallin Manual - a Cyber Warfare
convention?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>On Monday 25 March 2013 02:08 AM, Ian Peter
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:C85C4276D8D84E6FB4D1C7FD49B746E7@Toshiba type="cite">
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<DIV>I agree with Lee – I think there might be a lot we can do.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think there is a strong argument for a declaration of an Internet war
free zone of sorts – I think of Swiss neutrality, non-proliferation treaties,
nuclear weapon free zones, etc. I think a compelling argument can be made that
cyberwarfare with its inability to localise damage can be seen to be something
we should not contemplate. We may not be able to stop it, but we may be able
to have it declared illegal or immoral. That would be a good first
step.</DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ian, <BR><BR>Where do you think these
steps can be taken, in an effective manner? Civil society needs a real doable
roadmap. <BR><BR>parminder <BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:C85C4276D8D84E6FB4D1C7FD49B746E7@Toshiba type="cite">
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ian Peter</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=lmcknigh@syr.edu
href="mailto:lmcknigh@syr.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">Lee W McKnight</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 25, 2013 7:29 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=governance@lists.igcaucus.org
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</A> ; <A
title=pouzin@well.com href="mailto:pouzin@well.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Louis Pouzin (well)</A> ; <A
title=ian.peter@ianpeter.com href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Ian Peter</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> RE: [governance] Tallin Manual - a Cyber Warfare
convention?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Louis,
<BR><BR>re CS influence, I note the Red Cross had a seat at the table while
the docs were drafted or at least was on the pre-publication review list,
unsure myself how they worked together.<BR><BR>But I would not be so
dismissive of CS's ability to influence modification of part or object to
certain sections. In fact, sounds like a good topic for an IGC co-sponsored
workshop at IGF...assuming we don;t already have a submission coming in right
on target. <BR><BR>Now putting on my political and media games analyst
hat...the public naming and shaming of the particular building in Shanghai
full of People's Liberation Army contractors incessantly cracking government
and firm systems and - borrowing?- or should I say sharing for themselves that
information, fits in context of the push towards new international law for
cyber warfare. <BR><BR>Which in principle may be better than the absence
of such a legal framework; or granted, possibly worse when implemented in
practice. <BR><BR>But my comment is just that it is too soon to say how this
will all play out, and we should not assume we cannot have an impact on the
path.<BR><BR>Lee<BR><BR>PS: And belated warmest congratulations!!! : )<BR>
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<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr" id=divRpF20562><FONT color=#000000 size=2
face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:pouzin@gmail.com">pouzin@gmail.com</A> [<A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:pouzin@gmail.com">pouzin@gmail.com</A>] on behalf of Louis Pouzin
(well) [<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:pouzin@well.com">pouzin@well.com</A>]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday,
March 24, 2013 12:37 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</A>;
Ian Peter<BR><B>Subject:</B> [governance] Tallin Manual - a Cyber Warfare
convention?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Ian Peter <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
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<DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#333333><FONT face=Helvetica><SPAN><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">As Samuel Morse might have remarked, “What God
hath wrought”.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#333333><FONT
face=Helvetica><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#333333><FONT face=Helvetica><SPAN><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">A </FONT></SPAN><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">landmark document created at the request of NATO
has proposed a set of rules for how international cyberwarfare should be
conducted. Written by 20 experts in conjunction with the International
Committee of the Red Cross and the US Cyber Command,
the</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><A
href="http://issuu.com/nato_ccd_coe/docs/tallinnmanual?mode=embed&layout=http%3A%2F%2Fskin.issuu.com%2Fv%2Flight%2Flayout.xml&showFlipBtn=true"
target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true"><I><FONT color=#fb4834><FONT
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" face=Helvetica>Tallinn Manual on the
International Law Applicable to Cyber
Warfare</FONT></FONT></I></A></FONT><SPAN><FONT face=Helvetica><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><FONT color=#333333><SPAN> </SPAN>analyzes
the rules of conventional war and applies them to state-sponsored
cyberattacks.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
title=http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare
href="http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare"
target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>- - -<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks Ian for precious links. It seems that time is coming for legal
definitions of cyberwarfare, in which we are living already. Initiatives
belong to the powers that be, the only ones with the capacity to follow or
violate the rules. CS doesn't have much influence, except through occasional
media power.<BR><BR>Some more frightening documents on real war:<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.salon.com/2013/02/19/latin_america_territorio_libre_from_the_cia_partner/?source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Premium%29_7_30_110"
target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.salon.com/2013/02/19/latin_america_territorio_libre_from_the_cia_partner/?source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Premium%29_7_30_110</A><BR><BR><A
href="http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/projects/globalizing-torture"
target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/projects/globalizing-torture</A><BR><BR>One
may observe that oppressive regimes resort to coded sanitized language to mean
illegal and criminal activities. This was anticipated by Orwell (newspeak),
and turned real with soviet labor camp (concentration), nazism special
treatment (gas chamber), maoism reeducation (deportation), bushism and obamism
extraordinary rendition (torture), inter
alia.<BR><BR>Louis<BR><BR> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<P>
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