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<p>We can make an effort to rewrite sections of the tallinn manual and
publish an alternative version or maybe a critical edition of sorts to
make these clear I expect <br>
<br>
The difficulty both with the tallinn manual and in this one is that
both aren't binding and only those countries that already follow
best practice will make any effort to change because of either or both
the tallinn manual and our inputs (of course assuming they are produced
and get the same level of attention) <br>
<br>
--srs (htc one x)<br>
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<p>On 25 March 2013 2:08:25 AM "Ian Peter" <ian.peter@ianpeter.com> wrote:</p>
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<DIV>I agree with Lee – I think there might be a lot we can do.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think there is a strong argument for a declaration of an Internet war
free zone of sorts – I think of Swiss neutrality, non-proliferation treaties,
nuclear weapon free zones, etc. I think a compelling argument can be made that
cyberwarfare with its inability to localise damage can be seen to be something
we should not contemplate. We may not be able to stop it, but we may be
able to
have it declared illegal or immoral. That would be a good first step.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ian Peter</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=lmcknigh@syr.edu
href="mailto:lmcknigh@syr.edu">Lee W McKnight</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 25, 2013 7:29 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=governance@lists.igcaucus.org
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</A>
;
<A title=pouzin@well.com href="mailto:pouzin@well.com">Louis Pouzin
(well)</A> ;
<A title=ian.peter@ianpeter.com href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">Ian
Peter</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> RE: [governance] Tallin Manual - a Cyber Warfare
convention?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Louis,
<BR><BR>re CS influence, I note the Red Cross had a seat at the table
while the
docs were drafted or at least was on the pre-publication review list, unsure
myself how they worked together.<BR><BR>But I would not be so
dismissive of CS's
ability to influence modification of part or object to certain sections. In
fact, sounds like a good topic for an IGC co-sponsored workshop at
IGF...assuming we don;t already have a submission coming in right on
target. <BR><BR>Now putting on my political and media games analyst
hat...the public naming and shaming of the particular building in
Shanghai full
of People's Liberation Army contractors incessantly cracking government
and firm
systems and - borrowing?- or should I say sharing for themselves that
information, fits in context of the push towards new international law
for cyber
warfare. <BR><BR>Which in principle may be better than the
absence of such
a legal framework; or granted, possibly worse when implemented in practice.
<BR><BR>But my comment is just that it is too soon to say how this will
all play
out, and we should not assume we cannot have an impact on the
path.<BR><BR>Lee<BR><BR>PS: And belated warmest congratulations!!! : )<BR>
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<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr" id=divRpF20562><FONT color=#000000 size=2
face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> pouzin@gmail.com [pouzin@gmail.com] on behalf
of Louis
Pouzin (well) [pouzin@well.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:37
PM<BR><B>To:</B> governance@lists.igcaucus.org; Ian Peter<BR><B>Subject:</B>
[governance] Tallin Manual - a Cyber Warfare convention?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
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<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Ian Peter <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
target=_blank>ian.peter@ianpeter.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
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<DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#333333><FONT face=Helvetica><SPAN><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">As Samuel Morse might have remarked, “What
God hath
wrought”.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#333333><FONT face=Helvetica><SPAN><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#333333><FONT face=Helvetica><SPAN><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">A </FONT></SPAN><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">landmark document created at the request of
NATO has
proposed a set of rules for how international cyberwarfare should be
conducted. Written by 20 experts in conjunction with the International
Committee of the Red Cross and the US Cyber Command,
the</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><A
href="http://issuu.com/nato_ccd_coe/docs/tallinnmanual?mode=embed&layout=http%3A%2F%2Fskin.issuu.com%2Fv%2Flight%2Flayout.xml&showFlipBtn=true"
target=_blank><I><FONT color=#fb4834><FONT style="TEXT-DECORATION: none"
face=Helvetica>Tallinn Manual on the International Law Applicable to Cyber
Warfare</FONT></FONT></I></A></FONT><SPAN><FONT face=Helvetica><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><FONT
color=#333333><SPAN> </SPAN>analyzes the
rules of conventional war and applies them to state-sponsored
cyberattacks.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
title=http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare
href="http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare"
target=_blank>http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>- - -<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks Ian for precious links. It seems that time is coming for legal
definitions of cyberwarfare, in which we are living already.
Initiatives belong
to the powers that be, the only ones with the capacity to follow or
violate the
rules. CS doesn't have much influence, except through occasional media
power.<BR><BR>Some more frightening documents on real war:<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.salon.com/2013/02/19/latin_america_territorio_libre_from_the_cia_partner/?source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Premium%29_7_30_110"
target=_blank>http://www.salon.com/2013/02/19/latin_america_territorio_libre_from_the_cia_partner/?source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%20Newsletter%20%28Premium%29_7_30_110</A><BR><BR><A
href="http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/projects/globalizing-torture"
target=_blank>http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/projects/globalizing-torture</A><BR><BR>One
may observe that oppressive regimes resort to coded sanitized language to mean
illegal and criminal activities. This was anticipated by Orwell
(newspeak), and
turned real with soviet labor camp (concentration), nazism special treatment
(gas chamber), maoism reeducation (deportation), bushism and obamism
extraordinary rendition (torture), inter
alia.<BR><BR>Louis<BR><BR> </DIV></DIV>
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