<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>If civil society can speak knowledgeably in this area, its inputs would be welcomed in a multitude of fora engaged on this issue. I have not, unfortunately, seen much of that on this list at any rate.</div><div><br></div><div>To answer Ian's comment, there is a distressing trend in more than one nation to use non state actors (including criminal botmasters) to carry out ddos attacks and break into foreign networks for espionage, this is more or less similar to other nations using jehadis and mujahideen to carry out attacks that would be politically and strategically infeasible for their armed forces to carry out.</div><div><br></div><div>So while some of the models could do with an update, it is absolutely essential that this practice be internationally recognized as unacceptable.<br><br>--srs (iPad)</div><div><br>On 23-Mar-2013, at 14:44, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Saturday 23 March 2013 11:43 AM, Ian
Peter wrote:<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:6B27E4EE52214C57BC412D11CBB8F193@Toshiba" type="cite">
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<div>I just read through the principles outlined in this
document and am extremely concerned at some of the
implications of extending normal warfare “principles” to
cyber infrastructure, attempts to define territoriality in
this space, and some of the concepts that applied in guns
and warships style conflicts being extended into cyberspace
– like combatants wearing uniforms to distinguish themselves
from civilians. And many other arguments based on 1940s
international law that really should not apply.</div>
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<div>This, unfortunately, is a document from “credible”
sources and is likely to have impact on NATO thinking.
Therefore it is extremely concerning. I am interested in the
reactions of people on this list who are more knowledgeable
in this area.</div>
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I dont claim to be more knowledgeable, but from the little I know
how political affairs get conducted: it is best to have larger, more
open discussions on such issues, where the less powerful countries
are also involved. While some were always more equal then others,
the trend has worsened in the IG space, where it is also almost
normatively accepted that it is ok that the game be played among the
biggies. Civil society normally plays the normative and
democracy-seeking role, and expanding global governance spaces to
include smaller countries equally, but regrettably, not in the IG
space.<br>
<br>
Secondly, and there have been some strange comments in this regard
as late as in the last few day - lets understand and accept that
Internet governance is not about some rather insignificant issue of
CIRs management, it is about so many much bigger issues, very
central to the future of our societies. Again, civil society has a
big role in defining this larger issue-scape rather than digging our
collective head in the CIR sands, becuase it gives us a very good
and saleable slogan of 'mutistakeholderism is sought to be replaced
by UN inter-gov-ism'. And the most powerful countires want us to
keep using this slogan exclusively and do nothing else. In all other
IG areas, the strong control of Northern governments on how our
future is evolving is so very clear that is does not admit to 'MSism
being replaced by UNism" slogan, and thus civil society should be
kept away from grasping and taking up these more important other IG
issues. <br>
<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:6B27E4EE52214C57BC412D11CBB8F193@Toshiba" type="cite">
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<div>Ian Peter</div>
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<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="ian.peter@ianpeter.com" href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">Ian Peter</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:40 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="governance@lists.igcaucus.org" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> [governance] Tallin Manual - a
Cyber Warfare convention?</div>
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<div><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 23px; TEXT-TRANSFORM:
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><font color="#333333"><font face="Helvetica"><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">As Samuel Morse
might have remarked, “What God hath
wrought”.</font></span></font></font></span></div>
<div><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 23px; TEXT-TRANSFORM:
none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal;
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><font color="#333333"><font face="Helvetica"><span class="Apple-converted-space"></span></font></font></span> </div>
<div><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 23px; TEXT-TRANSFORM:
none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal;
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><font color="#333333"><font face="Helvetica"><span class="Apple-converted-space"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">A </font></span><font style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt">landmark document
created at the request of NATO has proposed a
set of rules for how international
cyberwarfare should be conducted. Written by
20 experts in conjunction with the
International Committee of the Red Cross and
the US Cyber Command, the</font></font></font></span><font style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><a moz-do-not-send="true" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 23px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none;
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-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" href="http://issuu.com/nato_ccd_coe/docs/tallinnmanual?mode=embed&layout=http%3A%2F%2Fskin.issuu.com%2Fv%2Flight%2Flayout.xml&showFlipBtn=true" target="new"><i><font color="#fb4834"><font style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" face="Helvetica">Tallinn Manual on the
International Law Applicable to Cyber
Warfare</font></font></i></a></font><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 23px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none;
TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; DISPLAY:
inline !important; FONT-FAMILY: ; WHITE-SPACE:
normal; FLOAT: none; COLOR: ; WORD-SPACING: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><font face="Helvetica"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><font color="#333333"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>analyzes
the rules of conventional war and applies them
to state-sponsored cyberattacks.</font></font></font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" title="http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare" href="http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare">http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4130740/tallin-manual-on-the-international-law-applicable-to-cyber-warfare</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
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