<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">inline responses<div><br><div><div>On 14 Mar 2013, at 11:42, Jeremy Malcolm <<a href="mailto:jeremy@ciroap.org">jeremy@ciroap.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">Conceptually, of course, there is no justification for the technical and academic communities to be their own stakeholder group. WGIG considered that question, and explicitly decided they should not be. The WSIS output documents are a bit ambiguous, but I've put the case that they too describe only three separate stakeholder groups.</span><br style="font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That is your opinion, but not one that many would recognise as a fact.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">Nevertheless, the technical community have carved out a separate stakeholder role for themselves just on the basis of their historical (and ongoing) role in the management of critical Internet resources and standards. Whilst that is an important role, it is hard to see it providing a coherent conceptual basis to constitute them as a separate stakeholder group.</span><br style="font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Again, your opinion. I amongst others strongly disagree.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">I've been called out for being too critical of the technical community lately, but actually I<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><i style="font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: medium; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">am</i><span style="font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>a member of the technical community; former board member of ISOC-AU, Secretary of Australia's first (non-profit) national ISP, an open source software developer, have been a system administrator, and former manager of two IT consultancies.</span><br style="font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Jeremy, I can also claim to be technical - I've had a technical career in IT that went from Sysadmin to hired gun CIO; I've designed IP networks including multi-country networks and programmed routers.</div><div><br></div><div>Neither of us is a member of the technical community. You work for consumer interests and I work in policy for a trade association. Members of the technical community work for technical bodies.</div><blockquote type="cite"><br style="font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span style="font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">So I'm by no means an enemy of the technical community, I'm just calling the shots as I see them; and the treatment you have received, Michael, seems to me another example of the wrong approach being taken at a high level by the technical community's self-appointed representatives.</span><br style="font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "></blockquote></div><br></div><div>I leave it to the community concerned to deal with this issue and the questions arising from it, but I personally am unwilling to decide judgment based upon one email from an interested party in the issue - and simple fairness, I would have thought, should mean that nobody else should do that either.</div></body></html>