<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Interesting choice of words. </div><div><br></div><div>The non aligned movement - 50s era nehru / tito / nasser served as a rather ineffectual grouping of countries with a mostly pro soviet tilt. It is still around, and mostly moribund.</div><div><br></div><div>Does civil society really need to go down that path?<br><br>--srs (iPad)</div><div><br>On 12-Feb-2013, at 7:00, "Louis Pouzin (well)" <<a href="mailto:pouzin@well.com">pouzin@well.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>When major actors are split in two dominant groups, minor ones tend to adopt a non committed neutral position. Then they may exploit it in ways that fit their or some other interests.<br><br>What you are proposing is a valid global picture. It needs bones to be effective, that is, influential.<br>
<br>E.g. produce reports, books, surveys, ...<br>Organize events, seminars, camps, petitions, ...<br>Set up a comprehensive data base on critical topics<br>.. add more suggestions<br><br>Best, Louis<br><br><br><br><br><br>
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On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 5:43 PM, michael gurstein <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">To carry forward this Cold War analogy I'm wondering whether the appropriate position for civil society should rather be one of "non-alignment"; that is, a position which recognizes a degree of validity in both sets of arguments but chooses to put these in the broader and more univeral context of the development of the Internet as a global public good, operating in support of the global public interest where there is a universal acceptance of free expression, human rights, and a fair distribution of economic benefits among other rights and principles.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">M<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Philipp Mirtl<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 11, 2013 7:41 AM<br><b>To:</b> Louis Pouzin (well); <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> AW: [governance] CNAS Commentary: "The Internet Yalta"<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear Louis,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks for your comment. Please note that the commentary was written by Alexander Klimburg, who I am working together with – not myself. Alex is not member to this list which is why he asked me to forward you the following:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-GB">“Depends what you mean by “creeping cyberwar”. If you mean the often-noted “militarisation of cyberspace” that is only one trend – and in some cases it is simply really part of “de-spooking of cyberwar” (i.e. making it more, rather than less, visible). The vast majority cyberconflict is invisible to those without the necessary technical or governmental insight.“<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">For more info, I also send you two additional links on that issue:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Alexander Klimburg (2011): “Mobilising Cyber Power”, Survival, 53:1, 41-60 (via: <a href="http://web.clas.ufl.edu/users/zselden/coursereading2011/Klimcyber.pdf" target="_blank">http://web.clas.ufl.edu/users/zselden/coursereading2011/Klimcyber.pdf</a>)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span>-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Alexander Klimburg (Ed.) (2012), <i>National Cyber Security Framework Manual</i>, NATO CCD COE Publication (via: <a href="http://www.ccdcoe.org/369.html" target="_blank">http://www.ccdcoe.org/369.html</a>)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Warm regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Philipp<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="DE-AT"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="DE-AT"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="DE"> <a href="mailto:pouzin@gmail.com" target="_blank">pouzin@gmail.com</a> [<a href="mailto:pouzin@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:pouzin@gmail.com</a>] <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Louis Pouzin (well)<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 11. Februar 2013 16:21<br><b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Philipp Mirtl<br><b>Betreff:</b> [governance] CNAS Commentary: "The Internet Yalta"<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="DE-AT">Hi Philipp,<br><br>Congrats for your very perceptive analysis. The fragmentation trend is indeed on the ground already. Do you have any comments on the creeping cyberwar ?<br>
<br>Best, Louis<br>- - -<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT">On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Philipp Mirtl <<a href="mailto:Philipp.Mirtl@oiip.ac.at" target="_blank">Philipp.Mirtl@oiip.ac.at</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-GB">Dear list members,</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-GB">For those who are interested, I forward you the link to a recently published <b>commentary on WCIT-12</b>: <a href="http://www.cnas.org/theinternetyalta" target="_blank">http://www.cnas.org/theinternetyalta</a>.</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-GB">The abstract reads as follows:</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-GB">“The December 2012 meeting of the World Conference on International Telecommunications (WCIT) may be the digital equivalent of the February 1945 meeting of the Allied powers in Yalta: the beginning of a long Internet Cold War between authoritarian and liberal-democratic countries. The battles over Internet governance that surfaced at WCIT are not just about competing visions of the Internet, with one side favoring openness and the other security. They are also about two different visions of political power – one in which that power is increasingly distributed and includes non-state actors, and one in which state power is dominant. At the Yalta Conference, Western democracies made two fundamental mistakes: first, they allowed naive statements of wishful thinking to supplant actual realities on the ground. Second, they overlooked the risk inherent in permitting ambiguous definitions. Both of these mistakes may have been repeated at WCIT.”</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-GB">Best regards,</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="DE-AT"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="DE-AT">Philipp Mirtl</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="DE-AT"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Austrian Institute for International Affairs</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Berggasse 7</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Fax: <a href="tel:%2B43-%281%291-581%2011%2006-10" target="_blank">+43-(1)1-581 11 06-10</a></span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d" lang="DE-AT">E-Mail: <a href="mailto:philipp.mirtl@oiip.ac.at" target="_blank">philipp.mirtl@oiip.ac.at</a></span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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