<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Milton<div><br></div><div><div><div>On Jan 28, 2013, at 2:52 PM, Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Palatino; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">How are standardization processes irrelevant to IGF?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">My organization has sponsored workshops on DNSSEC and RPKI/BGPSEC, both of which involve IETF standards. Many other organizations, including EFF and CDT, have highlighted the nexus between standards and governance.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Nobody is contending standards are not relevant to governance or the IGF. (?!) Some of us think the IGC should focus first on contributing to the IGF consultation process, which it has not always managed to do. It's a bandwidth issue.</div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Palatino; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Either we endorse the statement or we don’t. IF we endorse it and submit it to the consultation, it’s relevant.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The consultation is about the Bali agenda. If we want to make a contribution saying standards should feature prominently on the Bali agenda and attach a statement about the IETF as an illustration of why then that would be relevant, yes. However, it's not obvious from the conversation thus far that assembling a consensual statement on IETF will be easy to do.</div><div><br></div><div>BD</div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Palatino; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; "><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:governance-<a href="mailto:request@lists.igcaucus.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>William Drake<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:38 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Adam Peake<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [governance] Towards an IGC Statement on RFC 6852 "Affirmation of the Modern Paradigm for Standards"<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">Hi<br><br>I agree with Adam. The IGC was created to provide input into the WSIS and then the IGF. If it runs off and chases other agendas of interest to co-cos or others (cybersecurity, IETF etc.) while neglecting its original reason for being, isn't that sort of doing a disservice to all those who've put a lot of time and energy in over the years trying to get the IGF to work and bake in civil society participation? And if the IGC doesn't consistently provide solid inputs to the IGF consultations, why should governments and other stakeholder groups think it's a player they need to work with when making deals, including in the MAG? In fact, why shouldn't the UN look to other organizations and networks to provide more civil society nominees etc. If the IGC makes itself look irrelevant to the IGF, it will increasingly be treated as such.<br><br>Bill<br><br><br><br><br>On Jan 27, 2013, at 4:01 AM, Adam Peake <<a href="mailto:ajp@glocom.ac.jp" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">ajp@glocom.ac.jp</a>> wrote:<br><br>> Please, just focus. There's a hard deadline for a contribution to the<br>> IGF (which we missed last year). Meet that and come back to the RFC.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Adam<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 8:33 PM, Norbert Bollow <<a href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">nb@bollow.ch</a>> wrote:<br>>> [with IGC coordinator hat on]<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Adam Peake <<a href="mailto:ajp@glocom.ac.jp" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">ajp@glocom.ac.jp</a>> wrote:<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> Norbert, thanks for trying, but to be frank, why bother?<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Because standards development is very much at the core of Internet<br>>> governance, and it is important for IGC to engage, to the extent that<br>>> consensus is possible, also on such core issues, and not just on more<br>>> peripheral questions like e.g. the choice of discussion topics for the<br>>> next Internet Governance Forum.<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> In the couple of days since RFC 6852 was mentioned we've seen almost<br>>>> equal support/opposition for statement.<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> That is not accurate. We have seen praise for RFC 6852 as well as<br>>> criticism. This is no reason to not at least try to incorporate both in<br>>> a statement.<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> And if the caucus does produce something will it make any difference?<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> That will depend on the actual content of the statement, and on how<br>>> convincing it is written, and on whether it will get promoted in<br>>> contexts where it can make a difference. The Caucus has several members<br>>> who have the right kind of contacts.<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> Could we please focus on core issues.<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> This is a core issue.<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Greetings,<br>>> Norbert<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 5:10 PM, Norbert Bollow <<a href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">nb@bollow.ch</a>> wrote:<br>>>>> [with IGC Coordinator hat on]<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> Let's develop an IGC Statement on this RFC 6852 "Affirmation of the<br>>>>> Modern Paradigm for Standards" [1].<br>>>>> [1]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6852" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6852</a><br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> I'll be willing to serve as editor if no-one else volunteers, but<br>>>>> I'd prefer for someone else to take on this role.<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> Who would like to volunteer?<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> Greetings,<br>>>>> Norbert<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> Stephane Bortzmeyer <<a href="mailto:bortzmeyer@internatif.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">bortzmeyer@internatif.org</a>> wrote:<br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>>>> It is a good document.<br>>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>>> No, it's not.<br>>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>>> It refers only to business uses of the Internet, as if the Internet<br>>>>>> were not used for many other things. It was recorded as a comment<br>>>>>> by some IETF members<br>>>>>> <<a href="http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iab/trac/ticket/193" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iab/trac/ticket/193</a>> but was<br>>>>>> ignored.<br>>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>>> It calls for access to the standard documents but it is<br>>>>>> hypocritical since one of the signers, IEEE, does not allow it<br>>>>>> <<a href="http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iab/trac/ticket/213" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iab/trac/ticket/213</a>> (ITU, the<br>>>>>> main target of this RFC, does distribute its standards online for<br>>>>>> a few years.)<br>>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>>> It refers to open and transparent processes but the IETF members<br>>>>>> discovered this document when it was already signed, and<br>>>>>> impossible to modify.<br>>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> ____________________________________________________________<br>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>>>>> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:<br>>>>> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:<br>>>>> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>>>>> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>>> Translate this email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br>>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> ____________________________________________________________<br>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>> To be removed from the list, visit:<br>> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> For all other list information and functions, see:<br>> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Translate this email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>