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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/26/2013 10:38 AM, Guru गुरु
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:51034FAC.4040605@ITforChange.net" type="cite">
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<br>
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<div class="moz-signature"> On 01/26/2013 03:58 AM, Roland Perry
wrote:<br>
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</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:miMQK+RcHvARFAYf@internetpolicyagency.com"
type="cite">In message <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:5102AD28.9090901@ITforChange.net"><5102AD28.9090901@ITforChange.net></a>,
at 23:04:56 on Fri, 25 Jan 2013,
=?UTF-8?B?R3VydSDgpJfgpYHgpLDgpYE=?= <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Guru@ITforChange.net"><Guru@ITforChange.net></a>
writes <br>
<blockquote type="cite">you say 'different forms of democracy',
is plutocracy another form of democracy? <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Only if everyone in the country in question is wealthy. So
Monaco, perhaps? <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Ronald,<br>
then can you explain what you mean by 'different forms of
democracy' in which the lobbying power of money varies across
countries?<br>
<br>
Also <br>
"The word plutocracy is almost always used as a pejorative to
describe or warn against an undesirable condition,<sup
id="cite_ref-2" class="reference"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy#cite_note-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a></sup><sup
id="cite_ref-3" class="reference"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy#cite_note-3"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a></sup>
and throughout history political thinkers such as <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill"
title="Winston Churchill">Winston Churchill</a>, 19th-century
French <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociologist"
title="Sociologist" class="mw-redirect">sociologist</a> and <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historian" title="Historian">historian</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_de_Tocqueville"
title="Alexis de Tocqueville">Alexis de Tocqueville</a> and
19th-century Spanish <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchist"
title="Monarchist" class="mw-redirect">monarchist</a> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Donoso_Cort%C3%A9s"
title="Juan Donoso Cortés">Juan Donoso Cortés</a> have condemned
those they characterize as plutocrats for ignoring their <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_responsibility"
title="Social responsibility">social responsibilities</a> to the
poor, <u><b>using their power to serve their own purposes</b></u>
and thereby increasing poverty and nurturing <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_conflict" title="Class
conflict">class conflict</a>, and corrupting their societies
with <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greed" title="Greed">greed</a>
and <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonism" title="Hedonism">hedonism</a>.<sup
id="cite_ref-4" class="reference"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy#cite_note-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a></sup><sup
id="cite_ref-5" class="reference"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy#cite_note-5"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a></sup>
(<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy</a>)<br>
<br>
<b>This seems to be the direction that US seems to be moving
towards, with the vastly disproportionate influence of the
monied in policy making.</b> This phenomenon is also true for
most other countries including India, but with most large IT
transnationals being head quartered in the US and with US domestic
law unfortunately* the defacto global law, the need/scope for
policy lobbying/corruption is much higher in the US.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
Guru<br>
* I would think it axiomatic that global democracy will require a
league of nations and nationalities and not any one having any
pre-eminent position, so it is disappointing (though not
surprising) that we get responses on the list about 'US eminent
role/ US exceptionalism' being good or inevitable. To quote that
great American, Abraham Lincoln "No man is good enough to govern
another man without that other man’s consent", something many
Americans on this list and other nationals favoring US eminence in
IG, may want to ponder about. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
also on the same wiki page - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy</a><br>
<br>
" When the Nobel-Prize winning economist <a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stiglitz" title="Joseph
Stiglitz">Joseph Stiglitz</a> wrote the 2011 Vanity Fair magazine
article entitled “Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%”, the title as
well as the content pointed to evidence that the United States is
increasingly ruled by the wealthiest 1%. ..... elites like to think
of themselves as acting in the collective interest, even as they act
in their personal vested interest. And so what I think you'll end up
seeing is social mobility, which is already ;decreasing in the
United States, being increasingly squeezed. You see particularly
powerful sectors, finance, oil. <b>I would say the technology
sector is going to be next in line, getting lots of government
subsidies.</b><br>
<br>
The scandalously low effective tax rates of the IT transnationals
can also be seen as some kind of implicit subsidy ... and
measures/experiments like that of the French Govt are required to
help correct this situation - by reducing the lobbying power of
these corporates and also getting the funding required by
governments to support basic societal infrastructure, including soft
infrastructure like public education and public health.. <br>
<br>
regards,<br>
Guru<br>
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