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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Further to this interesting discussion which appears to have been quite active in various venues in recent times… (and very much moving beyond concerns re: simple competition and "freedom of speech" issues…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.furtherfield.org/features/algorithms-and-control">http://www.furtherfield.org/features/algorithms-and-control</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Guru ????<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 07, 2013 10:41 PM<br><b>To:</b> governance@lists.igcaucus.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] FW: [IP] Google's Lawyers Work Behind the Scenes to Carry the Day - NYTimes.com<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 01/08/2013 01:43 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Pariser's "filter bubble" thesis has very little scientific grounding. It is one of those things that has acquired credibility primarily through repetition, and the fact that some people always badly want to believe that "the media" are manipulating us.</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>I think the point of how Internet could have been to be a space to build bridging capital and how the 'personalisation' process will erode is something we need to ponder over. Can you elaborate on why you think "<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>thesis has very little scientific grounding."</span> i assume you are talking of social sciences here...<br><br>also do you really believe that there is no element of manipulation in the media? that this is just what "<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>people always badly want to believe"</span><br>(perhaps weapons of mass destruction were indeed found in Iraq ...)<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I recall seeing him on a television program when his claim was put to the test and they conducted searches using two different accounts and got virtually the same results. He was embarrassed.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>otoh I am embarassed that you think a sole case like this can disprove the point! <br>The article quotes Google as saying the search algorithm uses 57 signals about the user to provide personalised results, so you think all this is in vain?<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>On the other hand, I was quite grateful this morning when using a generic professional term to search for an office and discovering that the search had been limited to Syracuse area. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Guru, if you get badly personalized results from Google without asking for it, what is to stop you from not using Google? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>That the only action I can take to address this is by walking away is a naive response ... the issue is not of one individual user not using google. the issue is given the market dominance of google search engine, the terms of engagement are so biased in favor of one party that it is a joke to assume contractual law (clicking the i agree button or not clicking it) will solve the problem. <br> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Guru ????<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 07, 2013 12:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] FW: [IP] Google's Lawyers Work Behind the Scenes to Carry the Day - NYTimes.com</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>On 01/06/2013 10:22 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>So do you get all your news from just <a href="http://news.google.com">news.google.com</a> and other google search results, instead of Facebook shares, Riaz gleefully posting every article he sees about google being investigated for, say, giggling in church?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>And did Riaz find this news item anywhere other than google search?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>And does this reality distortion field google is supposed to have actually hide any search results from you that are negative to it? Like search for "google FTC" and you get the EU action, statements from Microsoft slamming the decision etc.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br>Does 'personalised search' (without your having asked for, it or having any role in such pesonalisation) not in a sense 'reality distortion' ....by offering different people different views on the same keyword search.<br><br>See <span style='font-size:10.0pt'>attached aticle (the web link is not available anymore)<br><br>Guru </span><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>And the last link on page 1 of the search results showing just where google got spanked by the FTC. <a href="http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/111650/why-does-everyone-think-google-beat-the-ftc">http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/111650/why-does-everyone-think-google-beat-the-ftc#</a> is worth a read as a kind f counterpoint to all the commentary about how google got a get out of jail card because of intensive lobbying.<br><br>Can we please<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>1. Have a reality check here<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>2. Go back to discussing Internet governance <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>--srs (iPad)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 06-Jan-2013, at 22:00, "michael gurstein" <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks Riaz (and sorry for the really awkward phrasing… </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>To put that in English…</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I'm wondering whether it wouldn't be better to "investigate" Google for possible "freedom of thought" violations rather than issues concerning "freedom of speech"… Google has the potential for much more serious impacts on our capacity to know (or not know) certain things, than on what we can say or not say… " <a href="http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/is-google-like-gas-or-like-steel-neither-it-is-like-nernsts-third-law-of-thermodynamics-or-the-nicene-creed/">http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/is-google-like-gas-or-like-steel-neither-it-is-like-nernsts-third-law-of-thermodynamics-or-the-nicene-creed/</a>or <a href="http://tinyurl.com/aokqzsl">http://tinyurl.com/aokqzsl</a><o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>