<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Arguing about English is an excluding distraction not conducive to the basis of multi-stakeholder dialogue. Sad to see on a CS list. The article was an opinion piece.</div><div><br></div><div>That said, as someone who remains very interested in the post WSIS goings on, I have appreciated the diversity of opinions that have emerged to assist me with understanding what actually happened at WCIT, so thanks for your enthusiastic discussions.<br><br>Tracey Naughton<div><div>Australia</div><div><br></div></div></div><div><br>On 22 Dec 2012, at 12:22 PM, "michael gurstein" <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">All of this phony outrage is a bit much…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Being outraged about a zillion dollar corporation not wanting to pay its fair share of taxes… that's something to be outraged about…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Being outraged at countries in the North turning their backs on agreements to extend broadband access to countries in the South… that's something to be outraged about…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Being outraged at countries not willing to sign agreements re-interating already agreed to commitments in the area of Human Rights… that's something to be outraged about…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">But whether the US walked out, tromped out, slid out, or flew out of the meeting on gossamer wings (after refusing to sign an agreement accepted by 2/3rds of the countries attending) … that seems to me to be a matter of the utmost triviality … of interest, dare I say, only to those who don't have anything more substantial to argue against…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">M<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Koven Ronald<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 21, 2012 4:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; <a href="mailto:lehto.paul@gmail.com">lehto.paul@gmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] A false consensus is broken<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">What the devil is a "figurative walkout" ? There was misrepresentation or factual error. Period. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">No reputable media outlet would or should accept that. A correction would be in order.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Orwellian language is not in order.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">If we can't count on basic intellectual honesty, there is no sense in these discussions. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Bests, Rony Koven<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>From: Paul Lehto <<a href="mailto:lehto.paul@gmail.com">lehto.paul@gmail.com</a>><br>To: governance <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>>; Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a>><br>Cc: michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Fri, Dec 21, 2012 9:02 pm<br>Subject: Re: [governance] A false consensus is broken<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="AOLMsgPart_2_2a10f422-fe87-4930-9d40-52e6c7058ec7"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><br>But what is truly at issue is not a "fact" like whether someone physically locomoted using their legs in order to leave a meeting. "Walked out" has both literal and figurative meaning, and Parminder - as was obvious to me at least - intended the phrase in a figurative way. This should be especially obvious because it was a country (having no legs) that walked out, not a specific person. <br><br>Since it appears some have appointed themselves inquisitors and made a charge of inaccuracy against Parminder, I assert my neutrality (not even sure why people are so hot on this), and <b>appoint myself judge and dismiss this claim, </b>on the grounds that "walked out" has clearly figurative meaning and the actual facts, even as alleged by the inquisitors, fit without the broad meaning of "walked out". :) <br><br>The key word in Michael's question was "pre-occupation." Why the <u>pre-occupation</u> with this? It appears that question is unlikely to be answered. And I won't rule on it either, since I don't have enough facts before me to do so. :) <br><br>Paul Lehto, J.D.<br><br>PS If anyone has a problem with me being the self-appointed judge here, then they should have a very similar problem with those who have accused and also called this an open and shut case of "you can't have your own facts" - which is just judgment in a different form, and a self-appointed judgment at that. In order to reach my "judgment" I've looked at the facts in the light most favorable to the accused, given the rights of free expression at stake. <br><br>All we really have here is what could be a valuable discussion about the extent to which there was or wasn't a <i>figurative</i> walk out, and that could be enlightening given the personal observations of some on the list but which devolved into something more <i>ad hominem</i> in the nature of a game of gotcha.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><br><br><br>On 21 Dec 2012, at 10:13, michael gurstein wrote:<br><br>> Or Parminder used/quoted colourful journalistic language in a journalistic medium...<br>><br>> Anyway, why this pre-occupation with one perhaps infelicitous turn of (journalistic/diplomatic?) phrase ... Is this the US Congress/Fox News where a fairly comprehensible mispeak can lead to a total "gothcha" pre-occupation (the Benghazi "discussions") for purely political purposes to the exclusion of substantive debate...<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">It is simple:<br><br>Because you are not permitted to have your own facts.<br></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#888888"><br><span class="hoenzb">avri</span><br><br><br></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><br>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list, visit:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" target="_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul R Lehto, J.D.<br>P.O. 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